London Underground one way systems

[Mojo]

Surely it would make sense to reverse the D&C gate arrangements ( all gates are reversible aren't they? ) so that the flow in all parts of the station is consistent?

The original UTS pneumatic gates from the 1980s (which are all the gates in use at Victoria apart from the Wags and the one next to the Wag at the bottom of the stairs) can only go in the direction which they have been installed in unless they have 2 sets of paddles in which case they can operate either way. I don't know which ones are installed there, but I'll go there tomorrow especially to have a look!

I suspect the reason it cannot be reversed is because at the moment the space on exiting is much larger (two sets of stairs leading up to a wide area in the ticket hall on the ''paid'' side of the gates. The entrance only has 1 set of narrow stairs on each platform leading up to a narrow footbridge.

In any case, it would not work with the new arrangement as from tomorrow for the next year being implemented due to the escalator replacement works. Passengers in the evening peak will enter the station via the District & Circle gates, go down through the relief subway behind the Eastbound platform and end up at the interchange concourse, using the down escalators there.
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Edit: just been to Victoria, the P-gates there are not of the reversible type and can only operate in one way (the way they've been installed).

 

[Daniel]

( all gates are reversible aren't they? )

Most aren't, to be honest. Even the new style (Cubic) UTS gates, which only need one set of paddles, often aren't reverable - the equipment cabenit on the other side is empty.

The best way to tell if a gate is reversable or not is to see if it's got an oyster reader on the other side.

 

[jon0844]

By the way, do you know what error code 116 is? The old gates only had two digits, but I've been getting this when using a station between my start/end points on the railway (but I'm assuming the error codes are the same on any Cubic setup)?

It isn't the code for pass-back, as this error was both going out and in.

 

[Mojo]

By the way, do you know what error code 116 is? The old gates only had two digits, but I've been getting this when using a station between my start/end points on the railway (but I'm assuming the error codes are the same on any Cubic setup)?

LU codes are all 2 digits. But Daniel has said he has a contact and can find out the codes for the amateur railway upstairs.

Edit: just found this which might help

 

[jon0844]

Thanks;

116 Origin or Destination Origin or Destination

Not sure what that means though, other than the gate detecting that the location is neither the origin or destination - which would make sense and be accurate, although the gate should allow a season ticket holder to enter/leave at any station between the two points.

(The station FWIW is Potters Bar)

 

[Daniel]

Yes the error codes are the same on cubic setup's, although differ dependant on the type of ticket used, (magnetic or oyster).

Mojo, there is a way for us to check when we're at work - I'll drop you a PM in case you're back in before I am.


EDIT: I will point out that although all LU codes are 2 digit, I have seen a 3 digit code displayed on an LU gate when a certain NR ticket was used, (FC ALR showing "Rover TOC ticket not valid at this station")...!

 

[DazzMcGuinness]

I don't think one-way systems really work. The one that has annoyed the heck out of me over the past fortnight is at Bank, coming from Waterloo. That's a lot of stairs that all of a sudden have to be climbed down because the lifts are being refurbished and a couple of walkways are closed on the walkway down to the Central line.

That said, it's moderately better than a free-for-all, where people end up getting trampled. One way systems are like moving queues, which is why they probably work so well in this country!

'McGuinness

 

[Daniel]

116 Origin or Destination Origin or Destination

<snip>

(The station FWIW is Potters Bar)

116 - "Station not listed as valid for entry or exit with TOC ticket"

 

[kbd]

I don't think one-way systems really work. The one that has annoyed the heck out of me over the past fortnight is at Bank, coming from Waterloo. That's a lot of stairs that all of a sudden have to be climbed down because the lifts are being refurbished and a couple of walkways are closed on the walkway down to the Central line.

That said, it's moderately better than a free-for-all, where people end up getting trampled. One way systems are like moving queues, which is why they probably work so well in this country!

'McGuinness

I think you are right Dazz.

Consider the tunnel from the Central Line to the Northern Line at Bank Station.

If you take a look at it at any one moment - 95% of the time you will see people walking one direction are on the left, while people walking in the other direction are also on the left and order and harmony is maintained.

Then for some reason a single person will decide to walk on the RIGHT !! - against the flow of the traffic.

You wonder what is going on in the heads of these people. They actually block the tunnel just like a blockage in a water pipe. If you are walking *correctly* down a tunnel and you come up against one of these people you have nowhere to go - because you have a wall of people coming up against you with no way through.

I have considered to myself "maybe this guy doesn't know the unwritten rules of society", but if you will just imagine for a moment a conversation between you and this guy : "Hey dude I don't mean to criticise I'm just trying to make the world a better place. The way you are walking is against the common good - if we all walk on the left we can both get to our places quicker."
What would the reply be ? "I have lived my life just thinking about my own immediate needs, but now that you bring this to my attention I realise you're right. Man I really appreciate you telling me this because now I've learned something and I appreciate your time".

Of course he wouldn't say that. More likely you would get a smack in the mouth or the guy would say something like "f**k off wan*er".

That's when I realised that you can't teach anyone anything these days. People don't want to learn - especially from other people - because they think they know best. The only way people seem to be able to learn is when soemthing they dislike happens to them - like they put their fingers in the fire and it hurts - they learn.

So in conclusion I really don't know. In this society where 95% of people follow the unwritten rules, but 5% flagrantly disrepect them because they just don't give a monkey's - how can you teach these people anything.

We know they only learn when something bad happens to them - so maybe we need a special team of LU traffic flow enforcers armed with sticks who beat down any offenders !!!

I'm pretty sure everyone would step in line then :0

 

[jon0844]

Thank you for that, so my guess was right. Bloody FCC!

Before Christmas, they were working on the gates at Potters Bar (not the gates themselves, but the cabinet next to it) so I suspect they've done a software upgrade that has messed things up.

Clearly, I should be allowed entry and exit at a station between my origin and destination when it's an annual gold card season!

 

[DazzMcGuinness]

Great point, kbd.

I have never personally used a lift at Bank, as I always kept to the left and walked in line with what is social convention (stand on the right, walk on the left on the escalators, and that translates nicely to other facets of society, notably driving!)

Another one that weirds me out is when there are entrance and exit-specific points at stations where the pathways don't lead to different places. There's one on either platform at Mile End, and I don't think anyone has ever taken notice of them. So may as well save the electricity used on the signs, eventually we may be able to save enough cash to bring in those walkway enforcers!

'McGuinness

 

[Mojo]

I have considered to myself "maybe this guy doesn't know the unwritten rules of society", but if you will just imagine for a moment a conversation between you and this guy : "Hey dude I don't mean to criticise I'm just trying to make the world a better place. The way you are walking is against the common good - if we all walk on the left we can both get to our places quicker."
What would the reply be ? "I have lived my life just thinking about my own immediate needs, but now that you bring this to my attention I realise you're right. Man I really appreciate you telling me this because now I've learned something and I appreciate your time".

Of course he wouldn't say that. More likely you would get a smack in the mouth or the guy would say something like "f**k off wan*er".

During peak hours (where this is more likely to be a problem) you probably won't get a response like that in London as people are much more willing to converse with others and tell them how stupid their behaviour is. I see it at least once a week where someone does something like walk on the right side where it says ''keep left'' or where someone stands on the left on an escalator. Normally one person says or shouts something (eg. "will you WALK down the left please") and other people back them up by pointing or shouting at how silly they are.

 

[DazzMcGuinness]

Maybe there's more acceptance on the escalators, but when you're walking towards and then past someone, where you don't have to awkwardly walk in the same direction as them, there's the chance for more angry words. Like when people push their way onto the train when people should be getting off. There's a moment of foul-mouthed abuse and then it's over, but it stays with everyone for a few minutes, if not for the rest of the day.

When it's not peak time, thankfully one-way systems, which really don't serve much purpose, are less strict. Although that just makes it easier for the staff to manage, not the users of the tube to make the most of: http://darrenmcguinness.wordpress.com/2011/02/04/mcguinness-on-bank-lifts-are-actually-quite-useful/

'McGuinness

 

[swt_passenger]

Thanks;

116 Origin or Destination Origin or Destination

Not sure what that means though, other than the gate detecting that the location is neither the origin or destination - which would make sense and be accurate, although the gate should allow a season ticket holder to enter/leave at any station between the two points.

(The station FWIW is Potters Bar)

That list linked to (from 2005) was badly formatted, it should be in two columns, where the left hand is what the code means for the magstripe reader, and the right hand is for Oyster. In the case of 116 both columns would be the same, but some other codes have different meanings, or aren't applicable to both ticket types.

Overtaken by later posts though, that give code 116 a different meaning...