London Underground one way systems

[tannedfrog]

It annoys me immensely at rush hour when people ignore the one way systems and cause delay to the people who are using the correct route

One example is the Central Line at Bond Street

Why do people insist on ignoring the signs? How can LU be persuaded to improve the signs or have staff directing customers at busy times?

 

[Mojo]

Moved thread to correct forum.

It is annoying, but then knowing the shortcuts does help. For example at Embankment coming from the Southbound Northern line platform going up the stairs is a nice speedy way and you never get anyone coming the other way.

In the morning peak because of the escalator works at Oxford Circus there is a one-way system in force, passengers have to go down and around almost via the Central line platforms, this is enforced by the escalators going up and not down! And also staff sometimes standing at the bottom of the sole down escalator. However this does cause problems for people trying to get to the Bakerloo and Victoria as everyone interchanging to the Central is coming the other way.

Probably the best thing to do is not bother.

 

[Greenback]

I doubt improving the signs will have any effect, it's more to do with people not respecting the rules!

I also doubt any extra staff would be forthcoming, given the expense at a tiem when budgets have been cut and TfL wabts to reduce staff numbers overall.

Although, it's annoying, ther eare probably other aspects of the passenger experience that could be improved more easily and more cheaply!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I'm guilty of this at Euston en route from the Northern Line ( CX Branch ) to the main line station, but only if it isn't busy.

And it's not just the Underground. One place where the rule could really do with being enforced is the subway at Clapham Junction.

 

[Waddon]

People are people, thats why ideas such as pedestrian fast lanes on Oxford street and quiet coaches are never going to work... people don't read signs because they think they know best, or they think it doesn't apply to them... I expect all of us have seen people standing on platforms under indicator boards, listening to announcements saying where the train is going, and still turning round and saying 'where does this train go'. For better or worse, we're not a regimented society, so thats just how things are...

 

[Greenback]

You're right to an extent, but I still think that quiet coaches are better than nothing - even with the occasional pest they are generally quieter than other carriages, at least on FGW anyway!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I did feel a fiendish sense of "ha ha ha" once when, at the top of the main staircase at Victoria once, a person coming up the wrong side was met face on by a descending policeman a few feet in front of me.

Said policeman quietly pointed out the ssigns then made him walk all the way back down to the ticket hall, pointed out the signs again and walked him over to the left hand side before smiling and waving as he sent him back upstairs on the correct side...

 

[jon0844]

I wish they'd put in 'keep left' stickers on the new entry to the Northern Line at King's Cross (via northern ticket hall), which sees people hitting each other head on when a train comes in and there are lots of people coming down (rush hour basically). Even though the escalators make it quite obvious to keep left, by the time you go to the bend in the corridor and to the steps, people cut over and it's a mess - especially as KGX has so many people with large bags.

It's odd that this wasn't considered from the outset.

 

[tbtc]

People are people, thats why ideas such as pedestrian fast lanes on Oxford street and quiet coaches are never going to work... people don't read signs because they think they know best, or they think it doesn't apply to them... I expect all of us have seen people standing on platforms under indicator boards, listening to announcements saying where the train is going, and still turning round and saying 'where does this train go'. For better or worse, we're not a regimented society, so thats just how things are...

That's it.

It means we need things announced dozens of times (because there'll always be someone who wasn't paying attention)

It means people here "police say drivers shouldn't make non-essential journeys" in blizzards hear "police say other drivers shouldn't make non-essential journeys"...

People aren't all selfish/ stupid/ ignorant, but enough are to require changes in how we explain things

 

[Greenback]

It means people here "police say drivers shouldn't make non-essential journeys" in blizzards hear "police say other drivers shouldn't make non-essential journeys"...

What they actually think then is 'good, everyone else will stay at home, so my journey will be quicker and easier'!

 

[tbtc]

What they actually think then is 'good, everyone else will stay at home, so my journey will be quicker and easier'!

That's it!

Sadly we need to design around the intelegence (or lack of) in the British Public.

Transport would be so much simpler otherwise - think of the innovations you could introduce

 

[ralphchadkirk]

.......

 

[colchesterken]

I moaned in a different thread about the long walks between platforms , either bad planning or a plan to ease numbers
at tottenham court road if you nip down the no entry at the bottom of the esculator
you are on the eastbound central line rather than a long walk along the passages

 

[WhiteJoker]

That's it!

Sadly we need to design around the intelegence (or lack of) in the British Public.

Transport would be so much simpler otherwise - think of the innovations you could introduce

Not just the British public. In The Netherlands, where I am based, trains are not announced when they pass at high speed, just like it happens by National Rail. They won't announce them, because if they do and people get used to it, they might not respond when the announcement fails.

 

[jon0844]

That would certainly be less annoying and it's a good logic (just have plenty of signs on the platform to warn of high-speed trains, as some stations do far more prominently than others).

Given that people ignore the yellow lines and parents let kids run riot on platforms seemingly unaware of the dangers, the announcements might just help keep people away from the edge - and stop giving train drivers heart attacks* - though.

* If I was a train driver and saw some idiot playing near the edge, I'd be imagining myself steering towards them! Luckily, I am never going to be a train driver so you're all safe!

 

[WhiteJoker]

Well, no signs either. But passing at high speed is done mostly on separate tracks or not at all.

PS: You could think about steering towards them, luckily the train itself won't move at all

 

[scotsman]

Not just the British public. In The Netherlands, where I am based, trains are not announced when they pass at high speed, just like it happens by National Rail. They won't announce them, because if they do and people get used to it, they might not respond when the announcement fails.

Interesting, since at all the Nuclear facilities in the country - there is a continuous 'tick-tock' alarm playing over the PA which confirms that the alarms system is working correctly. Staff get used to it and respond when it fails!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

In that case, I guess at BNFL they don't allow clocks that tick in case they mask the failure of the PA ticking?

 

[GodAtum]

I think its just us British! Asian tourists tend to obey signs and announcements.

 

[kbd]

The place I see this happen most is the wide corridor at victoria between the central/district line ticket barriers and the main hall.

I agree with the sentiment of previous posters that basically "people are people and won't change".

But also it seems that the standards of behaviour have declined over the last twenty years or so.

I regularly queue for the bus at London Bridge station, and in the rush hour there is often a really long queue. To illustrate that - sometimes an empty bus can open it's doors and if you are at the end of that queue you won't even get on that bus.

But there are still people who for some reason decide that they are exempt from queuing and just hover around at the start of the queue and barge on to the bus.

A friend of mine used to drive a bus and he said this was a problem he regularly saw and without getting too political - he said that the problem is worse in certain areas of London.

I don't know why TFL can't put up notices just to remind people to queue - but I guess they would be ignored anyway.

 

[jon0844]

I have to admit that I've given up queuing for buses, as there simply isn't one. What I'll do is let on those who I saw there before me, which could mean me getting on last or missing it - but missing a bus is more likely not because of being at the 'end of the queue' but because people do indeed rush to the doors (or, as seems to be getting more common, get on through the middle doors - which I put down to people being used to bendy buses allowing entry through all doors).

The problem at a stop with no 'countdown' indicator, or where more than one service stops, is how do you form a queue? What about people who wish to sit down, or stand under shelter? Take a number from a machine and board in that order?

Sadly, it's a free for all in town and always will be. I can't see how you could change it.

 

[Greenback]

Another difficulty at busys tops is where is the bus you want actually going to pull up? There are already two buses with people getting on and yours appears from around the corner - it signals to pull in so you walk towards the back of the queue of buses whne the first two suddenly move away and your bus whizzes past yu to the front of the stop!

If you don't move towards it the law of sod says that the bus will either not stop at all, l or let one person off before it moves off again!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

A bit of good news - although not on the Underground, some degree of enforcement has been started on the "keep left" at Clapham Junction.

On Friday evening Southern had three staff enforcing this on the subway stairs to platforms 15 / 16 ( if I've got the numbers right.... the down slow Brighton and the up Watford ); one member of staff at the bottom of the stairs, one at the top - these two were watching people heading for the stairs and blocking anyone who tried to go up or down on the right; the third member of staff was watching over the side of the railings at the top with a megaphone and calling out "KEEP LEFT!!!" every time one of the other two intercepted a "wrong-sider".

Didn't see if they were doing the same on the down fast / up slow Brighton platform.

SWT, on the other hand, were not doing anything to enforce it on their stairs.:cry:

Still, it's a start and hopefully before long the whole subway will be flowing more smoothly in the peaks.

 

[Mojo]

I hope now the escalator works at Victoria have started the 'keep left' on the interchange passage between the Victoria line escalators and the Westbound Circle/District line platforms starts to be enforced. It normally works quite well, with people being shouted at if they don't obey the rules, but if one person is coming up the wrong side as a train pulls in, it causes massive congestion.

 

[At_traction]

If I was a train driver and saw some idiot playing near the edge, I'd be imagining myself steering towards them! Luckily, I am never going to be a train driver so you're all safe!

Honking the horn would be an alternate route. Would lead to complaints and disciplinary action though.

Another difficulty at busys tops is where is the bus you want actually going to pull up? There are already two buses with people getting on and yours appears from around the corner - it signals to pull in so you walk towards the back of the queue of buses whne the first two suddenly move away and your bus whizzes past yu to the front of the stop!

If you don't move towards it the law of sod says that the bus will either not stop at all, l or let one person off before it moves off again!

The skill at the Art of Bus Stops is well dependent on Constant Monitoring (R). Ie. you walk towards the back of the bus stop and make sure that the driver sees you want to get on. Then you start simultaneously monitoring the two buses at the top and the approach of the one pulling in. If the two look like starting to pull out while the arriving has not yet stopped, you immediately start to walk to the front of the bus stop. The Scenarios and Patterns are endless, but monitor, monitor, monitor!

 

[Tom B]

The skill at the Art of Bus Stops is well dependent on Constant Monitoring (R). Ie. you walk towards the back of the bus stop and make sure that the driver sees you want to get on. Then you start simultaneously monitoring the two buses at the top and the approach of the one pulling in. If the two look like starting to pull out while the arriving has not yet stopped, you immediately start to walk to the front of the bus stop. The Scenarios and Patterns are endless, but monitor, monitor, monitor!

The system operated in Edinburgh is that ALL buses which serve a stop will pull in if others are there, UNLESS the driver can clearly see that there is a bus on the same service AND going to the same or further destination already at the stop. This means the passenger does not have to go haring into the road, or running down the line trying to flag a bus down.

It seems many bus companies are not willing to get their drivers to follow rules, so it doesn't happen elsewhere - to the point where I've missed a few buses even after running into the road trying to flag them down. Thankyou, Mrs Thatcher and your deregulation.

 

[jon0844]

In London, buses will stop a long way back (even more so with the bendy's) and then go on - even if there's no other bus of the same service in front (and a driver couldn't tell anyway if there's already 2 or 3 buses in front).

What's more, by stopping so far back they must assume everyone is able bodied and can go back (and has even noticed the bus approach). Someone in a wheelchair can forget about getting the bus they want at busy times along roads like Oxford Street.

Some drivers will stop far back, open the doors to let people off, and then go forward and stop again - but not all. If they've gone out to overtake all the buses, as against gone forward when the buses in front have proceeded, they won't even see that they've left anyone behind.

What's more, when I've complained about a bus driver doing just that - I was told that the bus driver had waited and checked, so it was my word against his. He lied, but how can any bus operator prove otherwise? In London, I guess there's CCTV but I doubt they'd check for a situation like that. Out in Herts, it's tough.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I hope now the escalator works at Victoria have started the 'keep left' on the interchange passage between the Victoria line escalators and the Westbound Circle/District line platforms starts to be enforced. It normally works quite well, with people being shouted at if they don't obey the rules, but if one person is coming up the wrong side as a train pulls in, it causes massive congestion.

Confusion probably arises at Victoria because the stairs to the main line station are keep left but the passageway from there past the Victoria Line escalators to the D&C gates is keep right...:roll:

 

[Mojo]

Confusion probably arises at Victoria because the stairs to the main line station are keep left but the passageway from there past the Victoria Line escalators to the D&C gates is keep right...:roll:

This is because the entry ticket gates are on the right hand side when coming from the Victoria line ticket hall. The reason for the stairs being keep left is because when station control is in operation it is easier to keep people to the left if everyone is queueing to enter on the other side.

I am talking about the interchange stairs between the Circle & District lines and the Victoria line interchange concourse, which nobody would have to go through if entering the station from the main line concourse.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Surely it would make sense to reverse the D&C gate arrangements ( all gates are reversible aren't they? ) so that the flow in all parts of the station is consistent?