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London Tramlink feeder routes

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AY1975

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In the early days of Croydon Tramlink (now officially known as London Trams) there were three Tramlink feeder bus routes: T31, T32 and T33.

As I recall the T31 and T32 were originally operated by First Orpington Buses/Centrewest Orpington and worked by buses that carried the same red and white livery as the original Tramlink colour scheme, and the T33 was originally run by Metrobus.

If I remember rightly all three routes originally offered through fares to or from Tramlink stops without the need to buy a new ticket when changing from bus to tram or vice versa. Does anyone know if this arrangement remained in place until the T31 and T32 were withdrawn and the T33 became the 433?

If such a system was still in place after the introduction of Oyster and contactless payment, they would presumably have had to programme the card readers on those bus routes and at tram stops not to charge another fare if the card had already been used on a tram or on one of the feeder bus routes within, say, an hour. Since 2016 such journeys have been catered for by the Hopper Fare.

These feeder routes have already been mentioned in passing in some other threads such as this one on bus routes lost or changed with the opening of new light rail systems: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/bus-routes-lost-changed-due-to-light-rail.218535/ and page 2 of this one on bus route suffixes: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/bus-route-suffixes.239061/page-2#post-5915827 but as far as I can see there has never been a dedicated thread on them before.
 
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JonathanH

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Since 2016 such journeys have been catered for by the Hopper Fare.
My recollection is that the Hopper Fare was effectively an extension of the provision for the through Tramlink journeys in programming terms.
 

Deerfold

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In the early days of Croydon Tramlink (now officially known as London Trams) there were three Tramlink feeder bus routes: T31, T32 and T33.

As I recall the T31 and T32 were originally operated by First Orpington Buses/Centrewest Orpington and worked by buses that carried the same red and white livery as the original Tramlink colour scheme, and the T33 was originally run by Metrobus.

If I remember rightly all three routes originally offered through fares to or from Tramlink stops without the need to buy a new ticket when changing from bus to tram or vice versa. Does anyone know if this arrangement remained in place until the T31 and T32 were withdrawn and the T33 became the 433?

If such a system was still in place after the introduction of Oyster and contactless payment, they would presumably have had to programme the card readers on those bus routes and at tram stops not to charge another fare if the card had already been used on a tram or on one of the feeder bus routes within, say, an hour. Since 2016 such journeys have been catered for by the Hopper Fare.

These feeder routes have already been mentioned in passing in some other threads such as this one on bus routes lost or changed with the opening of new light rail systems: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/bus-routes-lost-changed-due-to-light-rail.218535/ and page 2 of this one on bus route suffixes: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/bus-route-suffixes.239061/page-2#post-5915827 but as far as I can see there has never been a dedicated thread on them before.
They did. On the Oyster systems, Tramlink routes were treated as Trams rather than buses - it's just that the fare was the same if you didn't use Tramlink. At one point route 130 was one of the designated Tramlink routes (after T32 was withdrawn) - I recall having to write analysis software to take account of the fact it was recorded on some internal systems as the T130. The 433 was similarly recorded on those systems as the T433.
 

Busaholic

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Unless the matter has been clarified in the last few months, a journey on Tramlink involving a change of trams, or routes, remains ambiguous regarding the fare charged. Put it this way, I don't think anyone would get taken to court if they rode from one end of the system to the other regardless of number of changes and (almost) how long it took so long as a fare was paid at the beginning of the journey. It's almost as though trams are regarded as the black sheep of the family by TfL and they'd like everyone to forget its existence. Any grown-up capital city worthy of its status should be planning and executing tram and/or trolleybus systems and extensions, but where's the impetus here, certainly not amongst our lily-livered politicians and transport planners?
 

Deerfold

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Unless the matter has been clarified in the last few months, a journey on Tramlink involving a change of trams, or routes, remains ambiguous regarding the fare charged. Put it this way, I don't think anyone would get taken to court if they rode from one end of the system to the other regardless of number of changes and (almost) how long it took so long as a fare was paid at the beginning of the journey. It's almost as though trams are regarded as the black sheep of the family by TfL and they'd like everyone to forget its existence. Any grown-up capital city worthy of its status should be planning and executing tram and/or trolleybus systems and extensions, but where's the impetus here, certainly not amongst our lily-livered politicians and transport planners?
Why is it ambiguous?

Ken was keen on more Tram systems including a North South tram through Central London and one similar to bus 607, but progress was slow and Boris was elected on a ticket of not introducing any new Tram systems.

Sadiq, of course, has no money.
 

Busaholic

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Why is it ambiguous?
The Conditions of Carriage for Tramlink regarding fares don't align with the publicity material put out when the routes lost their numbers (and had altered routeings) back in 2018. TfL have had this pointed out to them but refuse to comment or clarify, so I'd call it deliberate obfuscation.
 

ctrh136

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They did. On the Oyster systems, Tramlink routes were treated as Trams rather than buses - it's just that the fare was the same if you didn't use Tramlink. At one point route 130 was one of the designated Tramlink routes (after T32 was withdrawn) - I recall having to write analysis software to take account of the fact it was recorded on some internal systems as the T130. The 433 was similarly recorded on those systems as the T433.
I think also 64 and 314 had the same arrangement.
 
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