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London to Nottingham - Saturday

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Capybara

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I made the mistake of catching the 10:15 fast train from St Pancras to Nottingham on Saturday. Just north of London the train unexpectedly stopped and after a short while the guard informed us that a window in the driver’s cab had been broken by individuals throwing rocks at the train. We would continue to Luton where the damage would be assessed. Having been in a similar position before, I knew what was next. We proceeded to Luton at slow speed. Indeed a FCC stopping train kept overtaking us before having to stop at each station. As we arrived in Luton the guard informed us that we would be stopping but would not be allowed off. Shortly after that we were told the inevitable; the train was being cancelled so please get off.

As I didn’t have a timetable on me, I wasn’t able to check options so had to rely, like everyone else, on what staff directed. We were told to catch the next East Midlands train to Bedford where we would be able to catch a train to Nottingham. This we duly did and we were on the Corby train to Bedford. On arrival at Bedford we discovered we had a long wait for a stopping train. In fact the train was due to leave Bedford after our original scheduled arrival in Nottingham. While waiting, I spotted the 11:15 fast train from St P to Nottingham speeding through.

Eventually, the stopping train arrived and the original contents of the first HST piled on to an already almost-full five-car 222. Needless to say the sheer volume of passengers crammed on to this thing meant that despite leaving Bedford on time every station stop was extended. Accordingly, we arrived in Nottingham at 13:45 on a train that was itself 20 minutes late and one and three quarter hours after our original expected arrival.

So, why did they not stop the next fast Nottingham train at either Luton or Bedford? This would have caused a small delay to that train but would have ensured that the delay to passengers from the first train would have been ‘only’ an hour or so. There would also, in all likelihood, have been more space for passengers. I suspect the answer might be what I have experienced elsewhere before whereby one set of very late passengers is deemed as better than two sets of late passengers ie trains running on time is more important than delivering passengers in as timely a fashion as possible. Or perhaps they are not allowed unscheduled stops (in which case they should have taken the train on slowly to Leicester where it would have been very late indeed). Secondly, what are the rules on broken windows in cabs? I had a look at the damage from the platform and it looked like nothing more than a cracked side window. Back in the day, steam crew were open to the elements and most diesel locomotives had side windows that could be opened, so what exactly are the safety (I assume) issues?

Incidentally, the journey back was almost as bad. Trains were rerouted from Leicester via Manston which meant a further hour and a half delay - a total of 3.25 hours delayed in the day.
 
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142094

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You're probably right - better to have only one lot of passengers delayed that others. If the St P - Nottingham after you had been delayed, this would have a knock on effect on other services that set had to work, when there would be no need for these pax to be delayed. Quite unfortunate, but happens a lot.
 

Capybara

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I understand that point but adding the extra stop would not have added very much at all and the turn round time at Nottingham would have meant that the return train would have been on time. My point was more that would the company prefer to have one very late train on its stats rather than two that were just 'late'?
 

142094

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Someone will know better than me but could it be due to the reporting of delays? It might be beneficial for EMT to only have 1 delayed train on its stats than 2+ delayed trains. I remember that someone mentioned this was why some trains were terminated short instead of running to the destination late.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also I agree with you, it would be more beneficial to customers if the train behind was stopped, and if I was on that train behind I wouldn't have a problem with it if we were still going to get us to the destination reasonably on time. However I guess someone wwould always complain if this happened.
 

38Cto15E

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I would have thought it common sense to stop the HST at Bedford, the delay would have been 5 minutes at worst, as another poster said, any delay would have been made up at Nottingham anyway.

I remember in the early 70s when I was a Guard at Leicester, I worked a freight train to Cricklewood and was due to come back as a passenger from STP.
Control told me they were a guard short of a STP-Bedford train and would I work it to Cricklewood.
I agreed on the understanding that they would give a special stop order to the STP-Sheffield express at St Albans, sure enough special stop followed for the VIP, ahh the good old days.:)
 

fsmr

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I would have thought it common sense to stop the HST at Bedford, the delay would have been 5 minutes at worst, as another poster said, any delay would have been made up at Nottingham anyway.

I remember in the early 70s when I was a Guard at Leicester, I worked a freight train to Cricklewood and was due to come back as a passenger from STP.
Control told me they were a guard short of a STP-Bedford train and would I work it to Cricklewood.
I agreed on the understanding that they would give a special stop order to the STP-Sheffield express at St Albans, sure enough special stop followed for the VIP, ahh the good old days.:)

A few years back, i took my youngest on a Sunday diversion from kettering to Leics via Manton junction and back as a treat over the viaduct. Unfortunately after a cpl of hours in Leicester and rushing to get on the return that was ready to depart, missed the fact it was a rare non stop to STP. On discovering the PA didnt mention Kettering and explaining to the guard who saw my sons look of fear that he would miss school the next day(even though in reality it would have been 2 hours tops to go there and back) bit later she said she was stopping at Kettering just for us to get off and pick up a driver. Felt like VIPs as no one else was allowed on or off
Wanted to thank Midland Mainline but she said it would get them in trouble
shame as things like that really make good customer service
Nige
 

royaloak

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today I will mostly be at home decorating
Unfortunately the way the railways have been set up (by the politicians) is that delay minutes are king, so delaying passengers unnecessarily is all part of this.
Now common sense (for the passengers) would have said contact the next Nottingham train and give them a special stop order for Luton inso doing inconveniencing the stuck passengers the least possible and only causing maybe 5 minutes delay to the passengers already on that service.
But by delaying that service it will show on the Passenger Charter figures so that can't be allowed to happen so let it run and sod the passengers that are stuck.
Wen you look at the PC figures just think how much worse they would be if the best solution (for the passengers) was used during delays and incidents such as this.
Which is better one or 2 late trains, well from the PC figures one obviously, but from the Passengers point of view 2, until we get away from this delay minutes are king, and start doing what is best for the passengers (within reason) we are stuck with it.
 

Capybara

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Yes, I thought that would be the case. I have experienced a similar mentality where trains running on time is considered more important than delivering passengers in as timely a fashion as possible under another franchise with the same parent company. It's fair enough blaming the politicians - and after all trains running on time is easier to understand by the person in the street - but shouldn't the operating companies be saying something? Privatisation is, after all, supposed to guarantee a better service ......

Anyway, in the end they got their two late trains thanks to trying to cram everyone on to the stopper, so a degree of justice was done at least.
 
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rick9525

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I remember back in the early 90s being a a Saturday service to Euston from Stockport.
We were imformed due to a cancellation of the Stoke on Trent stopper we made several unshedulaed stops on route to pick up stranded Euston bound passangers.

I once had a special stop made just for me at woodley when our train from Marple to Picadilly was diverted due to a failed HST at Bredbury and I had planned to get off there to get to work.
 
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The performance measures do drive some of the behaviour, but at the joint controls with Network Rail and the train company it's generally common sense that prevails - especially as what the train has to do next (its diagram) means that it isn't just the current journey in isolation that matters.

Long distance trains (like the London-Nottingham) service are not "late" until they are more than 10 mins late. What's more I'm pretty sure that cancelled trains aren't late at all. I'm not sure if there is a difference between cancelled trains and failed trains.

If an emergency timetable is issued (such as the one in force last week between Nottingham and London due to the track damage from the failed 222) then "late" is measured by the emergency timetable, not the standard timetable.

I've twice been on a delayed departure from Nottingham that by Leicester was announced to become a "fast" non-stop through to St Pancras just so that they could make up the time and slip in just under 10 mins late. Very sensible and I've been a happy passenger as a result. All the people that were left at stations from Leicester to London - I suspect that the system shows that their trains were cancelled so they weren't "late"!
 

ChrisTheRef

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When I went to Chile in September, I had to get a flight from Heathrow. Getting the train from Lime Street to Euston, I realised I'd forgotten my wallet. I somehow (still don't know how) managed to convince the train manager to stop the train at South Parkway and let my Mum almost throw my wallet through one of the crew service doors!
 

Capybara

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Well done East Midlands Trains. A full refund on the mat when I got home last night :)
 
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