London to Huddersfield

[umontu]

I want to travel to London from Huddersfield, but I'd like to go down via Manchester and back via Leeds, (so I can try out East Coast trains.) but they're not available as off peak as far as I can find, is there any way round this?

 

[bb21]

Huddersfield - London Terminals Route Any Permitted is valid for the itinerary you described.

Super Off-Peak Return £89.50
Off-Peak Return £159.50

Off-Peak Return Route Manchester is £89.80

 

[YorkshireRider]

Im not sure what you mean, you can travel on any train from the 0840 depature onwards with the return portion of an off-peak ticket or if you have a super off peak ticket then you can use any train from the 0935 to the 1435 depature then after that not until the 1903 depature onwards.

 

[umontu]

Im not sure what you mean, you can travel on any train from the 0840 depature onwards with the return portion of an off-peak ticket or if you have a super off peak ticket then you can use any train from the 0935 to the 1435 depature then after that not until the 1903 depature onwards.

Sorry I meant the £59.25 (16-25 rail card) month off peak return, it's only available if I use TPE and Virgin according to what I've seen using TPE's website, but for services via Leeds it's £105.25.

Forgive any terminalogical issues as ticketing is something I know little about.

 

[bb21]

At what times are you looking to travel?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
£59.25 is the railcard discounted fare for the Route Manchester Off-Peak Return, which explains why you cannot use it via the ECML.

 

[umontu]

At what times are you looking to travel?

Tuesday 8th March
08:26 - 11:23 HUD - EUS (Via Manchester)
Returning
18:35 - 21:25 KGX - HUD (Via Leeds)

If I bought the cheeper off peak ticket and returned by Leeds would a guard refuse my ticket?

Thank you

 

[MCR247]

Yes he would.

 

[bb21]

If you could wait till at least 1859 for your return journey then you can use the (even cheaper) Route Any Permitted Super Off-Peak Return ticket priced at £59.05. Alternatively you can go into London via ECML, as long as you arrive on or after 1117, and return via WCML and Manchester, which is valid from Euston on or after 1832.

 

[yorkie]

£59.25 is the railcard discounted fare for the Route Manchester Off-Peak Return, which explains why you cannot use it via the ECML.

Although a zero-fare excess to the appropriate Any Permitted fare (now named Super Off Peak, formerly Saver!) should be available. (But good luck getting it issued!)

It is probably easier, and slightly cheaper, to get the Any Permitted Super Off Peak and an excess (at half the price of the return) to the appropriate route Manchester ticket (named Off Peak). The excess is somewhere between £1.65 and £1.70 (£1.675 to be precise, which may be rounded up or down, and possibly to the nearest 5 pence depending on the software used, the mood of the issuer, the phases of the moon, and whether or not a black cat walks past the ticket office window ).

Good places for obtaining excess are:
* Most East Coast ticket offices (especially Peterborough; brilliant & friendly staff there, York is good too) with the exception of King's Cross (but if refused at KGX, ask for a manager, that usually resolves it)
* St Pancras station (EMT; usually)
* Euston station (London Midland, not Virgin!) depending on who is there, could be someone very knowledgable or, at times I've experienced, not so knowledgeable, so that's a lottery.
* Marylebone station
* On board the train (the excess is the same fare, including railcard discounts, on board, whether there was or wasn't opportunity to buy before boarding)

Happy excessing (!!!)

Welcome to the world of

ticketing!

(Disclaimer: simple is by the ATOC definition, the definition of simple by a reasonable person may be different)

With this particular excess, I'd be tempted to get it on the train. The guard may even accept it as it says "Any Permitted" and there isn't a Route Manchester Super Off Peak equivalent, indeed it may even be valid anyway without the £1.70 excess. Oh, and it would be good to see what the Virgin barrier staff do too

 

[bb21]

Tuesday 8th March
08:26 - 11:23 HUD - EUS (Via Manchester)
Returning
18:35 - 21:25 KGX - HUD (Via Leeds)

If I bought the cheeper off peak ticket and returned by Leeds would a guard refuse my ticket?

Thank you

You will be charged an off-route excess equivalent to half the difference between the cheaper Off-Peak Return ticket you hold and the lowest priced walk-on return ticket valid for the train you are on, or a brand new single ticket if cheaper.

Edit: Ah yorkie just saw your post

 

[umontu]

If you could wait till at least 1859 for your return journey then you can use the (even cheaper) Route Any Permitted Super Off-Peak Return ticket priced at £59.05. Alternatively you can go into London via ECML, as long as you arrive on or after 1117, and return via WCML and Manchester, which is valid from Euston on or after 1832.

It is probably easier, and slightly cheaper, to get the Any Permitted Super Off Peak and an excess (at half the price of the return) to the appropriate route Manchester ticket (named Off Peak). The excess is somewhere between £1.65 and £1.70 (£1.675 to be precise, which may be rounded up or down, and possibly to the nearest 5 pence depending on the software used, the mood of the issuer, the phases of the moon, and whether or not a black cat walks past the ticket office window ).

Worked out how to double quote!

Thank you all, bb21 I can so thank you!!

And Yorkie thanks for the tips, that did give me a good laugh and felt oddly realistic...

 

[tony_mac]

but you can take the 19:03

The off-peak return route Manchester should be valid via Leeds if a super-off-peak ticket is also valid (after 19:00) - as it is a more expensive ticket.

Alternatively, buy the super-off-peak ticket, and 'excess' one leg to 'route Manchester' which should cost 10p.

If you have a 'route Manchester' ticket, then you can travel at any time on a Virgin train via Manchester, as you have a railcard.

(If you don't know, you could also get a ticket to Brighouse or Wakefield and use the Grand Central £25 offer.)

 

[yorkie]

Tuesday 8th March
08:26 - 11:23 HUD - EUS (Via Manchester)
Returning
18:35 - 21:25 KGX - HUD (Via Leeds)

If I bought the cheeper off peak ticket and returned by Leeds would a guard refuse my ticket?

Thank you

The Off Peak Route Manchester returning via Leeds? You should be excessed on the rtn portion to SVR Route Any Permitted, which is valid.

The cost of this excess should be £18.90.

The gates at KGX are extremely likely to accept your ticket (currently seem to be accepting almost anything) so you won't have hassle boarding. The guard should do the excess as change of route, return ticket, rtn portion only, to the appropriate fare which is SVR Any Permitted £97.00 with a YNG Railcard, half the difference between £59.25 and £97.00 is somewhere between £18.85 and £18.90. (The actual price may be rounded up or down depending on the software used).

If you wait until 1903 then the excess should be £0 to the appropriate fare which is SSR Any Permitted £55.90 which is less than the price you paid.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And Yorkie thanks for the tips, that did give me a good laugh and felt oddly realistic...

No problem

Also worth bearing in mind is that there is no peak restriction when using the Route Manchester ticket on Virgin Trains, when using a 16-25 Railcard.

So you can either take a peak time train to London on Virgin, and leave London on the 1903 on East Coast, or you can take the 0905 from Leeds on East Coast, and then return any time on Virgin, to save yourself a £18 excess on the 1835.

 

[bb21]

No probs. Happy to help.

Actually I just realised from ojp that the 1123 arrival into Euston now appears not valid on the Super Off-Peak so I guess some changes have been made to the restriction texts (originally arrival at or after 1055). I would just wait a moment for someone with the latest edition of Avantix to post the full restriction text and double-check.

 

[umontu]

The ticketing system has confused me for tonight, but thank you all I appreciate all your help!

 

[bb21]

If you have a 'route Manchester' ticket, then you can travel at any time on a Virgin train via Manchester, as you have a railcard.

Yes forgot about that. However you need to remember that this concession is not offered if you hold a Route Any Permitted ticket.

You now have a myriad of choices, thanks to the good work by the previous incarnation of our current government.

 

[tony_mac]

arrival into Euston is irrelevant if he is on a 'Route Manchester' portion, due to Virgin's railcard easement. I don't know if they will cause a problem if the ticket is 'Any Permitted', because it isn't priced by Virgin. I would guess not, but you never know, and for the sake of the 10p excess!

I'm also getting £105.25 for the SVR with railcard, which isn't what yorkie said. But I wouldn't pay that much extra anway, for the sake of half an hour.

---
will you stop posting stuff while I am writing, it's making me look like an idiot

 

[bb21]

The ticketing system has confused me for tonight, but thank you all I appreciate all your help!

Well it is supposed to be a 'simplified' system, or at least what we were led to believe.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Huddersfield to London is something I looked into recently at work.

Essentially, "Rte Manchester" tickets are priced by Virgin Trains and are ONLY valid via Manchester. "Rte Any Permitted" tickets are priced by East Coast and are valid via Leeds or Manchester.

The relaxation on Virgin Trains for railcard holders says:

Off-Peak ticket types codes SVS and SVR purchased with a 16-25 or Young Persons Railcard are valid on any Virgin Train, where the route is not Virgin Trains Only and Virgin Trains price the flow, without time restriction.

So, with a Railcard, the Off Peak return from Huddersfield to London via Manchester would be £59.25. There would be no time restriction with this, you could travel at any time, but only via Manchester.

To the journey you described in post 6, buy the above ticket and travel down to Euston. To come back you will need an Excess fare. In this case, it would be half the difference between the fare paid and the fare that is due. I.e. £105.25 - £59.25 = £46.00 / 2 = £23.00. This allows you to take advantage of the VT morning restriction and come back via EC at the desired times.

I would, however, as previously stated wait a bit longer in London and travel back after 1859. After then the Super Off Peak becomes valid out of Kings Cross. The discounted fare for that is £59.05. As you have already paid £59.25, then the excess is Zero fare.

Change of Route

National Rail Conditions of Carriage, Condition 13, permits customers to travel by a different route, from the one stated on the ticket or allowed by conditions of the National Routeing Guide, to make their journey on payment of an Excess fare. The Excess fare is calculated as follows:

Return tickets - change of route in one direction only

Half the difference between the price already paid and price of the cheapest Return ticket, available for immediate travel that allows the customer to travel on the route and Train Company of their choice.

 

[umontu]

Thank you kwvr45

The 08:45 - 11:42 HUD - EUS
and
RTN on 19:00 - 21:59 KGX - HUD
Seems to be allowed as the ticket I wanted and at £59.05 .

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Yes, that would be fine.

 

[YorkshireRider]

If you are taking the 1900 or 1903 reserve yourself a seat as they are usually busy because they are the first trains after the restrictions have been lifted