London to Hemel Hempstead Off Peak Return validity

[Yorkswatcher]

Booked with EC to travel on LM

Ok so I should have really checked this but I just booked it as it allowed me to but when I looked at the ticket the next morning to see it was an off peak ticket.

So I then had to stump up another peak time single. So I tried to get my money back but East Coast have said Off peak ticket tried to use in Peak time no way!

But here is my booking so who is right.


Journey: 1 London Terminals to Hemel Hempstead
Ticket type: Off Peak Return Valid on off-peak services by the route and Train operator shown. Return travel any day within 1 month.
Route: Via Any Permitted Route
Outward journey: 21 Sep 2011 departs London Euston at 18:54 travel by Train service provider London Midland to station Hemel Hempstead arrives 19:20
Return journey: 22 Sep 2011
departs Hemel Hempstead at 08:03 travel by Train service provider London Midland to station London Euston arrives 08:33

 

[SickyNicky]

I believe your ticket was actually valid. Here is the restriction for that ticket. As you can see, your outward travel was after 1845, so it was OK, and there's no restriction going into London on the return portion.

Restriction : DM
OUTWARD TRAVEL                
By any train except those     
timed to depart Mondays to    
Fridays from London Terminals 
before 0915.                  
Also not valid on any train   
departing London Terminals    
between 1645 and 1845         
inclusive.                    
                              
RETURN TRAVEL                 
Not valid on any train        
departing London Terminals    
between 1645 and 1845         
inclusive.

 

[OwlMan]

As stated above it is valid for those services. Why did you think it was not valid?

Peter

 

[yorkie]

Booked with EC to travel on LM

Okay, that forms a contract with the TOCs, which must be honoured unless there is very good reason for it not to be (e.g. adverse weather conditions).

Ok so I should have really checked this but I just booked it as it allowed me to but when I looked at the ticket the next morning to see it was an off peak ticket.

That's all the checking you need to do.

So I then had to stump up another peak time single.

What happened exactly?

So I tried to get my money back but East Coast have said Off peak ticket tried to use in Peak time no way!

The validity code needs to be checked to determine validity, but if the website sells the ticket it must be honoured.

Journey: 1 London Terminals to Hemel Hempstead
Ticket type: Off Peak Return Valid on off-peak services by the route and Train operator shown. Return travel any day within 1 month.
Route: Via Any Permitted Route
Outward journey: 21 Sep 2011 departs London Euston at 18:54 travel by Train service provider London Midland to station Hemel Hempstead arrives 19:20
Return journey: 22 Sep 2011
departs Hemel Hempstead at 08:03 travel by Train service provider London Midland to station London Euston arrives 08:33

Both outward & return journeys are valid on an Off Peak Return (SVR) ticket.

If anyone said it was not valid the following can be done:
1) Show the itinerary from the website (or reservations, where available - not in this case)
2) Ask them to look up the validity code and tell me what it says (they can't realistically refuse to do this if they are claiming that the validity code states it's invalid!)
3) Make a note of the name of the person making the claim, write to the TOC concerned asking not only for your money back but for assurances that the company will ensure suitable training is provided.

 

[bb21]

I would think that there is an error somewhere.

There is no restriction on journeys arriving into London, only departing, in both directions.

 

[SickyNicky]

I would think that there is an error somewhere.

There is no restriction on journeys arriving into London, only departing, in both directions.

Indeed. The outbound restriction is for flows going OUT of London. So that's OK. (The reverse flow has a different restriction). The inbound restriction should surely have "arrive" not "depart", or it's an irrelevant one.

Unless the code is used on other flows that cross London.

 

[Yorkswatcher]

It was my morning return part of the return refused entry will it at Hemel

 

[RJ]

Booked with EC to travel on LM

Ok so I should have really checked this but I just booked it as it allowed me to but when I looked at the ticket the next morning to see it was an off peak ticket.

So I then had to stump up another peak time single. So I tried to get my money back but East Coast have said Off peak ticket tried to use in Peak time no way!

But here is my booking so who is right.


Journey: 1 London Terminals to Hemel Hempstead
Ticket type: Off Peak Return Valid on off-peak services by the route and Train operator shown. Return travel any day within 1 month.
Route: Via Any Permitted Route
Outward journey: 21 Sep 2011 departs London Euston at 18:54 travel by Train service provider London Midland to station Hemel Hempstead arrives 19:20
Return journey: 22 Sep 2011
departs Hemel Hempstead at 08:03 travel by Train service provider London Midland to station London Euston arrives 08:33

You were sold the correct ticket. Why did you have to stump up for a new ticket - did anyone official actually tell you that you needed to? The restriction on that ticket is as follows;

London to Hemel direction - not vaild for use on trains which leave Euston before 09:15 or between 16:45 and 18:45.
Hemel to London direction - vaild on any train.

 

[SickyNicky]

They were wrong to do that.
You are absolutely entitled to a full refund of the additional ticket you were forced to buy. Keep a photocopy of the ticket(s) when you send the original(s) off.
As Yorkie says, you should also ask them to confirm that they are going to give the appropriate training to their staff to ensure this doesn't happen again.

edit: sorry RJ - I was assuming that he wasn't allowed on board by staff not barrier - If the OP decided the ticket wasn't valid himself without asking, then all bets are off.

 

[ainsworth74]

It was my morning return part of the return refused entry will it at Hemel

By the barrier or by staff?

 

[Yorkswatcher]

By the barrier.

 

[bb21]

Barriers aren't always correct. They can only do what they were programmed to.

Staff should have known better though.

 

[yorkie]

By the barrier.

The barrier itself can't tell you anything so I am guessing you mean barrier staff? (Sorry if this sounds pedantic; it's not meant to be! We just need to establish what exactly happened and ideally what was said, so we can assist you )

Can you clarify? You put the ticket through the barrier, the barrier rejected it, a member of LM staff at the barrier said it wasn't valid and sold you a new ticket?

 

[Greenback]

The original post does seem to imply that the OP decided to buy a new ticket after they saw it said off peak on their priginal purchase (my bold!).

Booked with EC to travel on LM

Ok so I should have really checked this but I just booked it as it allowed me to but when I looked at the ticket the next morning to see it was an off peak ticket.

If a member of LM staff did inform the OP that the ticket was not valid, then the OP needs to complain to LM, quoting the restriction text and code in support.

I wouldn't surprised if this was the case, there have been instances where barrier staff belive that there is a blanket off peak restriction before a certain time.

 

[Yorkswatcher]

Barrier as in Barrier rejected it. No staff available at Hemel as they were busy with other passengers. I had a quick choice to make wait and see staff and miss the train or buy a new anytime single ticket.

I only expected to be told by the staff that the ticket wouldnt be vaild as its off peak and I didnt have the booking email I had made.

 

[yorkie]

Then that's your mistake, but I am struggling to understand a scenario where it's quicker to buy a new ticket than to be waved through the barrier by barrier staff. Were there a huge number of passengers queuing to get through the barrier and an inadequate number of staff to deal with the demand? Barrier staff must be available to assist promptly in the event of a customer having an issue with their ticket working the barriers.

I suggest you ask for a refund but you will have to reply on goodwill on LM's part. You can describe the situation with the barriers, as if the situation is as described that's a concern.

 

[SickyNicky]

I think that LM are, at least morally, partly responsible here.

If they program their gateline to reject tickets that are perfectly valid (or have a gateline that's not fit for purpose) and a passenger can't get in because of that, and there's no-one immediately available to help, the pax may well think he is in the wrong, and go and buy another ticket.

 

[Greenback]

I don't think we have enough information to make a decision about responsibility. Only the OP will know exactly what the situationw as on the day and at the time in question.

It's perfectly possible that the OP just looked at the ticket and decided that it must be invalid as it said Off Peak. They therefore assumed they had been sold the wrong ticket without any further check. This is actually what is implied in the first post.

I trust that the OP will decide to take the correct action in view of the circumstances. If they barrier did reject the ticket, write to LM and ask why this occurred. Explain that on this basis a bought a further ticket was bought that was not actually required.

 

[SickyNicky]

I agree we can't take a definitive view as things stand, but from what seems to have happened, I think it's definately worth explaining what happened to LM and asking for a refund of the extra ticket.

 

[Greenback]

I agree, but only the OP will know for definite whether they have grounds for involving LM.

The only thing I am sure of is that EC have no liability - they did sell the correct ticket!

 

[RJ]

I think that LM are, at least morally, partly responsible here.

If they program their gateline to reject tickets that are perfectly valid (or have a gateline that's not fit for purpose) and a passenger can't get in because of that, and there's no-one immediately available to help, the pax may well think he is in the wrong, and go and buy another ticket.

Gatelines reject valid tickets at times - the child lock being an obvious example. Given that all barriers are always staffed, how can it be their responsibility if one can't be bothered to have a word with the barrier staff?

 

[Paul Kelly]

If you haven't used the return portion of the Off-Peak Return yet, it will still be valid for another journey (at any time) from Hemel Hempstead to London any time up to 20 October.

 

[bb21]

If you haven't used the return portion of the Off-Peak Return yet, it will still be valid for another journey (at any time) from Hemel Hempstead to London any time up to 20 October.

Not if he gets a refund for the additional ticket.