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London Terminals ticket valid on Thameslink?

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bengolding

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I'm using a Derby to London Terminals ticket tomorrow. I now need to get to either Farringdon or City Thameslink. If I get the East Midlands train to St Pancras, will my above ticket be valid on the FCC services downstairs to either Farringdon or City Thameslink as well as the final destination, or or is only valid to St Pancras (in which case the barrier probably eats my ticket)?
 
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Edvid

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Only to London St Pancras since tickets to London Terminals don't allow travel to/via Farringdon. What type do you have by the way?
 

asylumxl

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OK I looked it up. EMT will chew your ticket, and it's not valid even with change over to FCC services.

They expect you to buy a Zone 1 supplement.
 
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bengolding

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I have a First Anytime single Derby to London Terminals.

It's crazy that at peak time it is quicker to get to London via Tamworth than it is to go direct to St Pancras!

Direct trains:
0603 arr STP 0809 (2h06)
0632 arr STP 0838 (2h06)
0703 arr STP 0857 (1h54)

Indirect via Tamworth:
0610 arr EUS 0800 (1h50)
0647 arr EUS 0826 (1h39)

So I'll be getting one of the latter two into Euston. That way I'll get a complimentary breakfast on the Virgin Train instead of having to pay £15 for the privilege on the St Pancras service.
 

Mike395

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Although it's not technically valid, most staff at the St Pancras EMT barriers will let you through if you just explain you wish to travel down to Farringdom/City. I don't know about City, but the barriers at Farringdon will quite happily let you out with a London Terminals ticket (and back in too) :)

The Underground barriers at St Pancras will let you through, but the FCC ones won't which is another thing to be aware of.

EDIT: My post is now irrelevant as voyagerdude posted at the same time :P

EDIT 2: This post is now doubly irrelevant as the info above is wrong, see below for correct answer :P
 
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barrykas

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From "The Manual":

Tickets issued to 'LONDON TERMINALS' from the North are only valid to St. Pancras International.

If you want to travel to Farringdon, or points South thereof, you need a ticket to Zone 1.

Cheers,

Barry
 

Tom C

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don't know about City, but the barriers at Farringdon will quite happily let you out with a London Terminals ticket (and back in too)

Every single barrier at Farringdon has a blue sticker which says "London Terminals tickets are not valid at this station" and the tickets do NOT work the ATG's.

That is completely wrong advise

From the North, London Terminals tickets are valid as far as St Pancras. From local destinations it is possible to buy a ticket to London Thameslink but whether you can from Derby I don't know. If not it will be Zone U1 which someone has already said.
 

Mike395

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Oh OK my mistake...got confused with London Thameslink tickets, sorry :(
 

yorkie

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Some NR tickets are valid on LU between King's Cross St Pancras and Moorgate, and this may be why tickets are allowed in at King's Cross. However they are not valid at Farringdon.
 

jobbers

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Morning All - have been looking at the site for a while, but this thread made me sign up and post!
I travel in from Kent on HS1 and although it doesn't come to the right part of London for me, the pros of using this fantastic service outweigh the cons, and I'm lucky enough to have the ability to pay the extra, which i appreciate not everyone does.
Anyhow, my annual season (not yet upgraded as it expires next month) is to "London Terminals, and after overhearing a conversation on the train a couple of weeks ago, have been using it from StP to City Thameslink, and is accepted both ends by the machines, and also was let back out by the barrier staff on the one occasion the FCC train was delayed and was quicker to use the tube.
In my view it's the same as using Waterloo East to London Bridge to get to the City as an alternative to the Waterloo & City line - something hundreds of people do every day!
I'll make a point of asking someone at the gates and find out what they say and let you know!
 
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dan_atki

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have been using it from StP to City Thameslink, and is accepted both ends by the machines,

St Pancras is a terminal from the north, and City from the south. They are both London Terminals (and with the advent of HS1, a ticket from a Kent area station would be valid at both). However, a London Terminals ticket is not valid at Farringdon - even if just passing through the station, such as the manner in which you describe.

In my view it's the same as using Waterloo East to London Bridge to get to the City as an alternative to the Waterloo & City line - something hundreds of people do every day!
I'll make a point of asking someone at the gates and find out what they say and let you know!

It depends on the ticket held here, if it is from a SE London/Kent station to London Terminals then fine. Same goes for a SWT station (and going into Waterloo*).

If, however, a U1 ticket is held then the situation isn't so clear cut. These tickets apply when the first or last leg of the journey is made by LU services (or an approved 'interavailable' route with NR). I don't believe any interavailable route extends to Waterloo East (although I will happily be corrected on that), so such a ticket would not be valid to London Bridge.

*It has been documented elsewhere that a London Terminals ticket does not cease to be valid at the first London Terminal you arrive at in the case of that cluster, on the proviso that you stay within the cluster: Waterloo, Waterloo East, Charing Cross, London Bridge, Cannon Street, Blackfriars, and City Thameslink.

e.g. Clapham Junction to London Terminals is valid at any of the above locations if travelling into Waterloo, with onward travel via Waterloo East (and changing at London Bridge, if necessary). Of course, this ticket is also valid into Victoria, and London Bridge on a direct service.
 

jobbers

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Now I'm confused - why is my ticket valid between StP and City Thameslink but not at Farringdon - which the FCC services passes through between the two?
Additionally - SET are stopping their HS1 services at Ebbsfleet International as of Monday onwards and providing a free bus service to Ebsfleet domestic to link up with trains into Liverpoll Street - which I assume means my ticket will cover this leg of the journey (if Ichoose to take it).
Appreciate any advice here!
 

Edvid

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why is my ticket valid between StP and City Thameslink
Technically speaking, it isn't. However the gates appear to be programmed leniently and don't discriminate between passengers from either direction.
Additionally - SET are stopping their HS1 services at Ebbsfleet International as of Monday onwards and providing a free bus service to Ebsfleet domestic to link up with trains into Liverpoll Street - which I assume means my ticket will cover this leg of the journey (if Ichoose to take it).
I presume you mean Stratford (not Ebbsfleet). As for potential validity to Liverpool Street, I'm not sure.

Which Kent station do you use?
 

Edvid

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I've had a look on the National Rail and First Capital Connect websites and they reckon you can travel to Liverpool Street with your ticket. However, we would need to consult the Routeing Guide to find out for sure (which I may do later on if I find some spare time).
 

Edvid

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OK, I have some info from the Routeing Guide.

The attached pics are RG1/RG2/RG3/RG4/RG5 respectively.

RG1 shows that both Folkestone stations are associated with Ashford International and Dover Priory. Given your preferred route to London, Ashford Intl would be your appropriate 'origin' routeing point.

RG2 and RG3 show that the Zone 1 London termini (London Liverpool Street, London St Pancras etc) are members of the London Group Routeing Point, so you also have your 'destination' routeing point.

RG4 shows you the potential map combinations for travel between Ashford Intl and London Group. Only 1 of the maps mentioned includes HS1, and that same map (HS) is in RG5. You can see that Liv St isn't part of map HS, so (according to the Routeing Guide anyway) you can't make use of it with your existing ticket.

It's still worth firing off a query I reckon. (All maps are available through the link at the top of my post.)
 

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dan_atki

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I wouldn't say it's that clear cut myself, and it depends on the distance from Ashford to Stratford via HS1.

As the shortest route (or one not 3 miles longer) is always valid (excluding the bus at Stratford) we have to check:
- The distance from Stratford (Domestic) to Liverpool Street is less than the distance from Stratford (International) to St Pancras. It's probably safe to assume this is true, but we will check anyways.

- The distance from Folkestone Central/West to Liverpool Street (via HS1 to Stratford (International) and then NXEA from Stratford (Domestic)) is less than the distance Folkestone Central/West to the nearest London Terminal (valid via the Routeing Guide) which I'm assuming is London Bridge.

If both of these are true then the ticket would be valid into LST, in my eyes at least.

Thankfully the new NRT has the distances required:
Stratford Int - St Pancras: 6 miles
Stratford Dom - Liverpool Street: 4 miles
Condition 1 satisfied.

Folkestone Central - Stratford Int: 64 miles
Stratford Dom - Liverpool Street: 4 miles
Folkestone Central - London Bridge (via Sevenoaks): 68.25 miles
Condition 2 satisfied.

Therefore, I'd expect the ticket to be valid into Liverpool Street via the route mentioned. That's not to say there won't be any issues with using it, though!
 
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