London Terminals - Thameslink Confusion

[Confused26]

Hi there,
I moved to Stevenage about 18month ago and started to use the SmartCard. I travel into London 3 times a week and will use Finsbury, St Pancras, Farringdon and City Thameslink. Often different stations on the same day depending on where my meetings are. When I spoke to the ticket office staff they told me to get a Flexi ticket for London Terminals and I'll be able to use all those stations, they thought if I have a ticket to Farringdon it may not work at Finsbury for example. Bought the ticket and have been using it most weeks since, going in and out of barriers, had tickets inspectors on all stations, applied for Delay Repay from all stations and had it awarded, even had Auto Repay awarded from Farringdon and City Thameslink. I therefore have had no reason to ever question this advice given to me.

I recently received an email saying I am being investigated for travel and delay repay fraud as London Terminal is not valid for the stations I regularly use. Upon some research I can see this is true and I should have been advised to get a ticket to London Thameslink. When choosing this option in the app it often changes to London Terminals or St Pancras, so again, confusing. I've spoken to some of the local parents and this is also news to them also with some using London Terminals for Farringdon for several years.
This is now causing me sleepless nights. I struggle with anxiety and this is eating me up inside. I don't know when I'm going to hear anything or how severe the punishment is going to. This is an honest mistake and I was only following the advice given to me by the ticket office staff.
What does everyone think the outcome is going to be for me? I am struggling to sleep, eat and function, money is very tight and any sizeable fine and I don't know how we will cope or find the money to pay. We have no money for lawyer or solicitor fees.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Aug 2025 ==

Sorry I should confirm that this is Thameslink railway.

 

[Hadders]

Have you been stopped while travelling?

Can you upload a redacted copy of the email you'e been sent and forum members will be happy to assist.

For future reference Stevenage to London Terminals is valid to:
Kings Cross
St Pancras
Moorgate
for completeness it's also technically valid into Liverpool Street via Enfield Chase and a walk to Enfield Town

Stevenage to London Thameslink is valid to:
Kings Cross
St Pancras
Farringdon
City Thameslink
Blackfriars
London Bridge
Elephant & Castle
note it is not valid to Moorgate (or Liverpool Street via Enfield)

With a season ticket (or a normal Anytime/Off Peak ticket on this route for that matter) you are allowed to start or end your journey early at an intermediate station. So boarding or alighting at Finsbury Park is absolutely fine with either ticket.

 

[Confused26]

No, I haven't been stopped whilst travelling. I have had my smartcard checked by inspectors at City Thameslink and Farringdon previous with no issue at all. I've had no reason to suspect I have been doing anything wrong.
This all came about from a Delay Repay I put in for when the trains were severely delayed one evening . They emailed me to say it had been rejected due to having an incorrect ticket, I queried and eventually got this response. I have had several delay repays processed using Farringdon and City Thameslink as the starting station on my smartcard, and have auto repay from these stations too, further reinforcing that my ticket was completely valid.

email:
We contacted you to advise that your ticket is not valid for the journeys you have been claiming for. This includes multiple claims and journeys made. If you can provide evidence of a valid ticket for the journeys in July and August listed in my earlier email, I will pass this onto our Delay Repay Auditing and Fraud team to update their records.

Due to the number of incorrect journeys made on your Smartcard, you have not paid the correct fare and we will not be able to assess a Delay Repay claim for your journey on 28 July 2025.

The person highlighted multiple days in July and Aug where I would have used City Thameslink and Farrigdon to exit and leave.

On getting to Moorgate from Stevenage..Am I permitted to change at Finsbury to get to Moorgate? I don't see how else I can get there? Except using the tube from Farringdon to Moorgate.
Many thanks

 

[Watershed]

On getting to Moorgate from Stevenage..Am I permitted to change at Finsbury to get to Moorgate?

Yes, you are free to change anywhere you'd like when you are travelling on a flexible ticket (e.g. Anytime or Off-Peak). Changing at Finsbury Park is probably quickest. There are direct trains from Stevenage to Moorgate (they leave from platform 5) but they are quite slow as they run via Hertford and stop at all stations.

I don't see how else I can get there? Except using the tube from Farringdon to Moorgate.

You can either take Great Northern services (e.g. changing at Finsbury Park) or you can take Thameslink/Great Northern to St Pancras/Kings Cross and then take the Underground from there to Moorgate, as this is known as an 'interavailable' route. You can't get off at Farringdon or Barbican though.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

This is now causing me sleepless nights. I struggle with anxiety and this is eating me up inside. I don't know when I'm going to hear anything or how severe the punishment is going to. This is an honest mistake and I was only following the advice given to me by the ticket office staff.
What does everyone think the outcome is going to be for me? I am struggling to sleep, eat and function, money is very tight and any sizeable fine and I don't know how we will cope or find the money to pay. We have no money for lawyer or solicitor fees.

Just to pick up on this point - you will not be going to prison for this. So hopefully that will give you a little reassurance.

There are a couple of routes that the railway could take if they wanted to pursue you through the criminal courts:
- most likely they could use railway specific legislation (either the railway byelaws or the Regulation of Railways Act). But it's not entirely clear to me that they've met the tests for prosecuting under those in that normally you have to be caught without a valid ticket: all the railway have here is the agreed fact that you used the ticket to a station that you now know it wasn't valid to.
- or they could try pursuing you for fraud. But (a) that requires intent on your part to gain an advantage, and it looks as if you were muddled here rather than trying to make journeys that you weren't entitled to. And (b) in practice the railways very rarely prosecute for fraud.

So I think that it's more likely than not that the railway won't be taking you to the criminal courts so not only won't you be going to prison but you may not have to pay a fine either.

It is, however, possible that they will be asking you for the fares back that they think you should have paid. That could end up in the civil courts - but civil courts are about getting money (and costs) back, and not punishing you.

So please relax - but try to save up money in case the railway want to take this further and you need to pay them. And keep us in touch with any further letters or emails you get from the railway - we may be able to explain what the emails mean and how best to respond.

 

[guilbert]

Have they paid out for any of the incorrect journeys? My reading of the email is they're just asking you to substantiate the delay repay claims before they pay out. I would be inclined not to respond given you don't have any proof. Obviously that means forgoing the delay repay payment but I don't see there's a whole lot more they can do unless you incriminate yourself.

 

[Confused26]

2 of the Delay

Have they paid out for any of the incorrect journeys? My reading of the email is they're just asking you to substantiate the delay repay claims before they pay out. I would be inclined not to respond given you don't have any proof. Obviously that means forgoing the delay repay payment but I don't see there's a whole lot more they can do unless you incriminate yourself.

2 of the claims where they paid out last month are ones they automatically gave me without me requesting them. One where i clocked in at City Thameslink and one at Farringdon. Both times I didn't request and the auto delay repay kicked in. There weren't big delays so just a few £ each time.
The one that started it was large delay of over 2 hrs. Annoyingly, i put Farringdon as the starting station as it was a saved journey when i had actually gone by tube to kings cross to try and get a train from there. When it was flagged they said they needed proof of the journey from Farringdon to St pancras/KingsX. I provided the proof that I had actually travelled by tube that evening. And the response was there are now more illegal journeys and it's still declined, followed by the email above.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Aug 2025 ==

Just to pick up on this point - you will not be going to prison for this. So hopefully that will give you a little reassurance.

There are a couple of routes that the railway could take if they wanted to pursue you through the criminal courts:
- most likely they could use railway specific legislation (either the railway byelaws or the Regulation of Railways Act). But it's not entirely clear to me that they've met the tests for prosecuting under those in that normally you have to be caught without a valid ticket: all the railway have here is the agreed fact that you used the ticket to a station that you now know it wasn't valid to.
- or they could try pursuing you for fraud. But (a) that requires intent on your part to gain an advantage, and it looks as if you were muddled here rather than trying to make journeys that you weren't entitled to. And (b) in practice the railways very rarely prosecute for fraud.

So I think that it's more likely than not that the railway won't be taking you to the criminal courts so not only won't you be going to prison but you may not have to pay a fine either.

It is, however, possible that they will be asking you for the fares back that they think you should have paid. That could end up in the civil courts - but civil courts are about getting money (and costs) back, and not punishing you.

So please relax - but try to save up money in case the railway want to take this further and you need to pay them. And keep us in touch with any further letters or emails you get from the railway - we may be able to explain what the emails mean and how best to respond.

many thanks and will do.

 

[soil]

unfortunately in this scenario the "london terminals" ticket is cheaper (£122.70 per week) than "london thameslink" (£130.70), so there was an advantage, even though you were unaware.

however, given that you were advised that the terminals ticket was valid for this travel, it does seem that you are blameless here.

 

[furlong]

Is the smartcard opening the barriers at all these stations, thereby reinforcing what you were told about the validity?

Is the underlying explanation here that they have configured their system incorrectly and have some confused staff as well as confused customers?