London Parkway station

[Zoe]

I'm surprised no-one has thought of building a parkway station in the M25 area. Build a large car park with free parking for rail users so people can get the train into London. It would reduce the amount of traffic heading furthern into Greater London. Any suggestions for the location?

 

[tbtc]

I'm surprised no-one has thought of building a parkway station in the M25 area

GNER did think of it, it was one of the list of things they promised to do

 

[MCR247]

I've always had an idea to have an 'outer circle' line witch is a circular railway running around outer London which serves parkway stations on the different mainlines conning with InterCity services, crossrail, local services and even LO. This might encourage people not to travel through London, therefore making it easier. These stations wouldn't have to be new stations, but it would be easier

 

[MikeWh]

I'm surprised no-one has thought of building a parkway station in the M25 area. Build a large car park with free parking for rail users so people can get the train into London. It would reduce the amount of traffic heading furthern into Greater London. Any suggestions for the location?

The problem is you'd need more than one. No-one would drive more than 10-20 miles round the 120 mile motorway because it would start to get pointless. There are quite a few stations within easy reach of the M25 anyway, but on weekdays any car park will be full all day with commuters.

 

[Bald Rick]

I'm surprised no-one has thought of building a parkway station in the M25 area. Build a large car park with free parking for rail users so people can get the train into London. It would reduce the amount of traffic heading furthern into Greater London. Any suggestions for the location?

People on the M25 are generally going round London, not into it. And people generally only drive into London if they have more money than sense, or because public transport doesn't serve their destination well. Parkway stations on existing lines won't solve this.

But to answer the question the most cunning plan would be Ebbsfleet.

 

[Zoe]

People on the M25 are generally going round London, not into it. And people generally only drive into London if they have more money than sense, or because public transport doesn't serve their destination well. Parkway stations on existing lines won't solve this.

I suggested the M25 as it would be the most practical location. If you go beyond the M25 the motorways start ending and you end up on ubran roads. You say more money than sense but some of the walk-on fares are stupidly expensive these days and it's cheaper to drive. A parkway station would allow people to park and get the train in and would reduce congestion within Greater London.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I suggested the M25 as it would be the most practical location. If you go beyond the M25 the motorways start ending and you end up on ubran roads. You say more money than sense but some of the walk-on fares are stupidly expensive these days and it's cheaper to drive. A parkway station would allow people to park and get the train in and would reduce congestion within Greater London.

In all fairness anyone with any sense who commutes into London will have a season ticket. The vast majority of leisure travellers will travel off peak when walk on fares are much lower and will probably book in advance saving more money.

Alternatively i know from first hand that people drive down the M1, park at Brent Cross and then get the tube in. So i guess that makes Brent Cross an unofficial parkway station!

To take an example its hard to see how anything could ease congestion on the Seven Sisters Road during the evening peak!

 

[Zoe]

In all fairness anyone with any sense who commutes into London will have a season ticket. The vast majority of leisure travellers will travel off peak when walk on fares are much lower and will probably book in advance saving more money.

That's the point though, off peak fares are getting to the point where they are unaffordable on some routes. It's all very well saying book in advance but people like to have flexibility and in recent years this has been taken away. This gives the car the advantage and is where a parkway station would be very useful. You could park near the M25 and get a suburab train or even the London Underground in and it likely wouldn't cost you as much, would give people flexibility and at the same time would reduce traffic getting further into London. Many cities have bus based park and ride schemes and I think a train based scheme would work.

 

[CheekyBandit]

What about a station at the back of London Gateway services?

 

[Bald Rick]

There are quite a few unofficial parkway stations on or near the M25 or London motorways.

For example Kings Langley is 2 mins from J20, has a recent decked car park, and a half decent service. Then there are Potters Bar (4 mins from J24), Upminster (J27), Swanley (J3), Knockholt (J4), Caterham (J6), and Leatherhead (J9).

However many, many more people driving long distance on a radial route will park and ride from further out as the traffic gets worse the closer in you get. The best example is Micheldever (pop 1269) which has station usage of 125,000 pa; this is used by many people who drive up from the West Country but don't want to carry on the A303 / M3. Another example is Stansted Airport station which has people driving to it from all over the top half of East Anglia.

 

[Zoe]

Iver would seem to be a good location, on the GWML right next to the M25 and will soon benefit from Crossrail services although only 2 tph it seems off peak.

 

[moonrakerz]

Sorry Zoe, but there is one HUGE flaw in your idea !

"FREE"

 

[Zoe]

Sorry Zoe, but there is one HUGE flaw in your idea
"FREE"

For rail users. If you start charging for parking it negates the benefit and people will drive further into London.

 

[The Planner]

Doesnt stop traditional bus based P&R, Oxford charge for theirs and they are consistently full at all 5 sites.

 

[Zoe]

Doesnt stop traditional bus based P&R, Oxford charge for theirs and they are consistently full at all 5 sites.

Yes but if you didn't charge I'd have thought you'd get even more people using it. Actually I'd have free parking at most stations on the condition that you are using the train.

 

[RichW1]

Always thought a parkway iniative would be good - also a light rail network running through Harlow, Hertford, Welwyn, St Albans then Watford or Hemel Hemstead. This area's becoming 'new London' as it's adding houses all the time (or was until our economic predicament) and there's A roads that are very busy linking these areas and I'm sure a light rail network would be a great addition as we suburbanise this area over the coming decades. But then I forget anything new must have a massive ratio of return now instead of it being a service and a factor of production in the economy....such a shame.

 

[The Planner]

Yes but if you didn't charge I'd have though you'd get even more people using it. Actually I'd have free parking at most stations on the condition that you are using the train.

Technically yes, physically no. No matter how many times they extend demand outstrips supply. Oxford being so hideously car unfriendly also helps....

 

[Bevan Price]

Always thought a parkway iniative would be good - also a light rail network running through Harlow, Hertford, Welwyn, St Albans then Watford or Hemel Hemstead. This area's becoming 'new London' as it's adding houses all the time (or was until our economic predicament) and there's A roads that are very busy linking these areas and I'm sure a light rail network would be a great addition as we suburbanise this area over the coming decades. But then I forget anything new must have a massive ratio of return now instead of it being a service and a factor of production in the economy....such a shame.

There used to be railways serving some of those areas.
Hertford to Welwyn.
Hatfield / Welwyn - Luton - Dunstable - Leighton Buzzard.
Hatfield - St Albans Abbey.
Harpenden - Hemel Hemstead
Cheddington - Aylesbury.
Most lost their passenger services even before the Marples-Beeching era, but some of them might have been useful now, if they had a decent service instead of the sparse / irregular services some of the lines had prior to closure.

Bevan

 

[jrhilton]

For rail users. If you start charging for parking it negates the benefit and people will drive further into London.

Agreed, I suspect most people would rather sit in their car for longer and drive in further and park at one of the known "free" areas than actually pay to park further out, and perhaps also have to pay more for their ticket in too.

 

[RichW1]

There used to be railways serving some of those areas.
Hertford to Welwyn.
Hatfield / Welwyn - Luton - Dunstable - Leighton Buzzard.
Hatfield - St Albans Abbey.
Harpenden - Hemel Hemstead
Cheddington - Aylesbury.
Most lost their passenger services even before the Marples-Beeching era, but some of them might have been useful now, if they had a decent service instead of the sparse / irregular services some of the lines had prior to closure.

Bevan

What an unbelievable loss! It appears that rail between outer suburban areas is not an option unless it's coming out of a centre of a built up area. An outer north London line would be perfect and these lines would've help construct just such a thing...such a shame.

Much of Surrey's suburbanised now and Southwestern trains area by chance has a bit of that suburb to suburb flow going on with the way the lines go through the western suburb extremities in Farnborough and Camberley etc. It really would require a grand plan to achieve such a thing and transfer some trips to light rail. Can't see it happening but I live in my imagination that we could be so bold and clever!

 

[LE Greys]

West Drayton, next to both the M4 and M25, also perfectly placed for a light-rail link to Heathrow Airport. Reopen the fast line platforms and make sure they are long enough for twelve coaches. If there is capacity to do so, stop the Oxford Flyers there (or transfer their stop from Slough) and consider stopping one of the Bristol services each hour.

 

[Zoe]

West Drayton, next to both the M4 and M25, also perfectly placed for a light-rail link to Heathrow Airport. Reopen the fast line platforms and make sure they are long enough for twelve coaches. If there is capacity to do so, stop the Oxford Flyers there (or transfer their stop from Slough) and consider stopping one of the Bristol services each hour.

The area around West Drayton is built up and I don't think there's anywhere you could put a large car park. That's why I suggested Iver.

 

[LE Greys]

The area around West Drayton is built up and I don't think there's anywhere you could put a large car park. That's why I suggested Iver.

You're right, I've checked on overhead imagery, plenty of room there. This means that the light railway would have to pass under the M25 to reach the airport, but there already seems to be a railway (the old Staines branch) running through the junction anyway. I'm thinking something similar to the Gatwick people-mover, just a bit longer. I'd prefer a maglev, but we can't have everything.

 

[andyfrommk]

I'm surprised no-one has thought of building a parkway station in the M25 area. ..... Any suggestions for the location?

Alliance Rail have.
scroll down to the "Why are some stations listed as Parkways on the network map?"
They cite Kings langley as being suitable for a parkway station, I'm not sure where I read it but they will have larger parking bays to suit 4X4s and people carriers to try to entice people out of those types of vehicles.

Tame bridge parkway has free parking so it is do-able

 

[Mojo]

I imagine there is a variety of reasons it's never been done:
a. Most people would rather take the train all the way to London or drive in
b. It would have to be cheap enough to make it worthwhile for people do use, either within the Travelcard zones or have a cheap add-on
c. Ideally trains would have to be quick to get into Zone 1; is there capacity on the main lines to stop more trains?
d. London is so big; there isn't a "city centre" as such like every other British city; where do people want to go?

 

[tbtc]

is there capacity on the main lines to stop more trains?

This is the biggest problem with the idea. If there were spare paths on the MML, spare trains and spare platforms at St Pancras then they should be used to meet the existing demands from along the Midland Main Line. Same goes with the GWML/ GEML etc etc.

TBH if it was going to work it may work best with the terminus of an Underground line

 

[LE Greys]

This is the biggest problem with the idea. If there were spare paths on the MML, spare trains and spare platforms at St Pancras then they should be used to meet the existing demands from along the Midland Main Line. Same goes with the GWML/ GEML etc etc.

TBH if it was going to work it may work best with the terminus of an Underground line

That's a good idea. Several possibilities.
Extend the Piccadilly from Cockfosters to South Mimms and make the car park at the services a bit bigger. The Northern High Barnet branch is also within easy reach, but is busy enough already.
Epping seems to have a decent-sized car park.
London Gateway seems to be within reasonable reach of Edgware.

 

[Zoe]

a. Most people would rather take the train all the way to London or drive in

I don't think many people drive all the way into London out of choice. Many people like to have the flexibility of not having to book a journey in advance and be restricted to a single train. If there were parkway stations then these people most likely wouldn't drive all the way in. Once parkway stations are provided there could be a case for extending the congestion zone all the way out to the GLA boundry.

 

[Mojo]

I don't think many people drive all the way into London out of choice. Many people like to have the flexibility of not having to book a journey in advance and be restricted to a single train.

I more had it in mind for people travelling from places in the South East where one would typically turn up and go buying a walk-on fare because Advances were not available.