London Overground: shurely shome mishtake....

[bakerstreet]

The new (December 2009) Tube maps are out.

When Shoreditch stn closed it was in Zone 2. Magically, the new Shoreditch High Street stn, a 2 minute walk away, has moved into Zone 1.

I could see this was a good idea if it helped anyone. But it helps noone. The only way to get to it is via Zone 2.

For those with a Zone 1 ticket they pay the same as they'll still need zone 2.

For those who were happily using Shoreditch on a Zone 2/3 travel card, they'll pay more.

What a calculated, cynical move.

Similar to Hampstead heath which was in 2/3. Then Silverlink forced it to be in 3 to get more revenue. A decision which TfL reversed (now it's in zone 2) as soon as it took control.

Does anyone know if any of the passenger groups have fought against this? Can this just be done with no inquiry about why zones are being moved about?!

And this is supposed to encourage rail travel! What a shame, what a wasted opportunity.

 

[John @ home]

When Shoreditch stn closed it was in Zone 2. Magically, the new Shoreditch High Street stn, a 2 minute walk away, has moved into Zone 1. ...

Does anyone know if any of the passenger groups have fought against this? Can this just be done with no inquiry about why zones are being moved about?!

It appears from this response to a Freedom of Information Act request that the re-zoning was a condition of the Secretary of State's approval to Transport for London to proceed with the scheme

1) Can you confirm that Hoxton and Whitechapel, the two stations that will be on either side of Shoreditch High Street, will remain Zone 2 stations?
We can confirm that Shoreditch High Street Station will be in Zone 1 and that Whitechapel and Hoxton Stations will be in Zone 2.

2) Would a London Overground journey on the East London Railway between Hoxton and Whitechapel be classed as a journey undertaken wholly in Zone 2, or would a passenger be charged for travelling through but not alighting in Zone 1, as is the practice on a London Underground journey?
TfL will be offering a local fare for passengers travelling between Dalston Junction and Wapping. Therefore passengers travelling between these stations will pay a fare as if they were travelling through one zone, and not two zones, including zone 1.

3) What, if any, steps have been taken by TfL to ensure that a north-south journey on London Overground's East London extension is not charged in similar fashion to, for example, a First Capital Connect journey between Kentish Town and Elephant and Castle?
Please see above.

4) The zone classification of Shoreditch High Street is a condition of the funding deal that was set out by the Secretary of State for Transport. Can you send me a copy of this funding deal?
... we have extracted the section from this document where the Secretary of State for Transport advises of issues concerning the East London Line, which you will find below:

"EAST LONDON LINE
First of all can I reiterate that, to support a project TfL price at £75m, I am already prepared to offer £24m from savings that might accrue in other areas, I am also prepared to support an application by TfL to the ORR for £19m of RAB funding, the cost of which will come from the Department over the longer term. Against that background, you invited me to 'split the difference' of the remaining £32m.

I am sympathetic, but there are some things to be clear on. Should the scheme proceed, cost and delivery risk associated with the project (including cost overruns) would be yours, not mine. That includes the risk that the ORR do not accept that the scheme should, in part, be RAB funded. The Surrey Canal Road Station must be included.

In addition TfL will need to confirm that the new Shoreditch High Street is in Zone 1 - this reduces the revenue loss on South Central services as a result of the new East London Line, and is the reason why I can expect to make savings as high as £24m."
http://londonreconnections.blogspot.com/2009/07/east-london-line-foi-request.html

I seem to remember London Travelwatch complaining, but can't find a reference at the moment.

 

[A60K]

AIUI the zoning of Shoreditch High Street as Zone 1 was forced on TfL by the DfT. This was one of the DfT's conditions to let the South London extension proceed, because it reduces the amount of revenue lost to South Central. London Reconnections carried an article about this in July.

There will be a 'local' fare for journeys between stations Dalston to Wapping inclusive, but otherwise you'll need Zone 1 to use the line through Shoreditch HS.

I agree it is an artificial device with no benefit to the passenger, and it stinks. It shows how commercial interests take priority over passenger interests, in a way that would not happen in many other countries.

 

[bakerstreet]

Good, I'm glad it's not just me who thinks there is a foul smell about all this!

I wonder re the 'local fares' whether a zone 2/3 travelcard will allow a journey Dalston Junction to Wapping with nothing extra to pay.

If not, I wonder what the pay-as-you-go excess would be? Via zone one, or some other fare - given that even they say this journey should not be priced as zone 1.

And in that case, I wonder if one were to want to take a through journey with a zone 2/3 season travelcard, but instead stopped off at Dalston to break your journey and touch out, then touch in, touched out at Wapping and then touch in again to continue if you'd get a reduced fare.

This is very unfair. I did think the point of a reliable, circular, route wholly in Zone 2 would reduce Zone 1 congestion - an outer circle.

But if you have to pay a Zone 1 fare for what is really a zone 2 journey then I'd just catch the tube through the centre as that runs more frequently and gives more flexibility.

I wonder if this was always the intention or a result of the credit crunch.

There have been a number of zonal changes in the 'financially good' years - all as far as I can remember in the passenger's favour.

Hampstead heath as previously mentioned moving from Zone 3 to Zone 2.

Stations from Epping - Debden which were previously in the then equivalent of zone 7 and 8 (out of zones) all moved into Zone 6 which would have saved locals a fortune and stopped the rail heading to Loughton.

Still, on the plus side, at least the zones have made a return to the Tube map!

 

[John @ home]

I wonder re the 'local fares' whether a zone 2/3 travelcard will allow a journey Dalston Junction to Wapping with nothing extra to pay.

If not, I wonder what the pay-as-you-go excess would be? Via zone one, or some other fare - given that even they say this journey should not be priced as zone 1.

I think you would have to ask TfL this.

 

[Old Timer]

Another cynical act by a disingenuous and anti-Railway Government who see the Industry as an easy cash cow.

It is all about the Treasury gaining money, but Boris taking the flak because the anti-Boris lobby never care about the facts only any stick no matter how tenuous to beat him and the Conservative party with.

"Oh what a tangled web we weave, When we first practice to deceive"

Marmion, Canto VI. Stanza 17. by Walter Scott

 

[moonrakerz]

Another cynical act by a disingenuous and anti-Railway Government who see the Industry as an easy cash cow.

(my highlighting)

I'm getting confused, I thought you could only say things like that about a Tory Government ! :roll:

 

[General Zod]

Shoreditch High St in Zone 1 ? Nice little earner. It's one of the most fashionable and trendiest parts of London and is absolutely heaving from Thurs - Sat. Once the line is fully operational the South Londoners will be flocking there in their thousands and the TfL tills will be chinging to the tune of ££.