London Overground delay compensation

[horizonflame]

Hi Guys

I've just been completing a Delay Repay claim on the TfL website for the disruption at Denmark Hill this evening.

I have a Woking -> London Z1-6 and the website asks for my ticket number, the vendor and expiry but not an image uploaded as the norm for other TOCs.

I'm curious whether LO can actually ask other TOCs to accredit Season Tickets from their databases for the purpose of delay repay validation?

 

[CyrusWuff]

Looks to basically be an adaptation of the LU Charter Claim Form. I'm not sure what level of validation they undertake in terms of ticket details though.

 

[LexyBoy]

They could just be taking it on trust, as the values will be small in most cases and maybe not worth the admin costs of verifying. Of course there could be some big claims too if LO is used at either end of a long IC journey- I wonder whether they would try and compensate for the LO part only as they are "not National Rail but part of TfL".

 

[yorkie]

I wonder whether they would try and compensate for the LO part only as they are "not National Rail but part of TfL".

The staff on the ground often seem to make such claims, but management are always quick to admit it's not true (but they never put it right!)

They can also get out of almost any delay as they only commit to paying out in situations that are "within our control", but delays within the control of the TOC are very rare in my experience.

Nearly all delays I encounter are due to infrastructure problems (often caused by bad weather), suicides, things like security alerts/lineside fires, and all sorts of other things not in the TOCs control.

However I do not think LO can exclude everything that is outside their control, because they cannot overrule the NRCoC, which says if your train is delayed by an hour or more, you are entitled to compensation if it is within the rail industry's control... but if you are delayed by 30-59 minutes then I guess they aren't in breach of that. Likewise, if you are delayed by more than an hour, the NRCoC entitlement is only a small percentage, and not full compensation.

TOCs like East Coast will pay out regardless of reason, as they participate in Delay Repay, which is a very generous scheme.

Interestingly, LO do not call it compensation, but call it a "refund". The word has a rather different meaning and almost suggests that they won't give money back if the ticket wasn't bought from them. Can they do that?

They certainly enjoy distancing themselves from the other TOCs, and doing things 'their way'.

Some of their gateline staff despise paper tickets, and especially paper Season ticket holders, and sometimes try to tell people such tickets are "not valid".

But watch out, they're spreading like a rash all over London!

 

[maniacmartin]

London Overground give compensation in the form of Rail Travel Vouchers, but only after a delay of an hour 30 mins or more, which is very rare in London.

LO claims are processed by Cross Country - if you ever receive a voucher from them it'll come in an XC franked envelope, so I doubt that this 'not part of National Rail' argument will feature.

 

[LexyBoy]

They can also get out of almost any delay as they only commit to paying out in situations that are "within our control", but delays within the control of the TOC are very rare in my experience.

Ah, I had assumed they had Delay Repay from the thread title. I'd not heard before that they did, but as they are a new TOC thought it fairly likely. I suppose as it's not a DfT-specified franchise there's no obligation for LO to offer Delay Repay.

It's a shame that LO has some of the frontline problems you mention, as the improvements in infrastructure, trains and services has been fantastic.

 

[yorkie]

London Overground give compensation in the form of Rail Travel Vouchers, but only after a delay of an hour or more, which is very rare in London..

They claim to give compensation ("refunds") for a delay of 30+ minutes:

https://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/refunds/overgroundrefund/

London Overground refunds for delayed or cancelled journeys

When we refund
If you experience a delay to your journey of more than 30 minutes for reasons within our control.

How much we refund
We'll give you a voucher to the value of the single delayed journey.

When we don't refund

• If the delay is beyond our control such as security alerts, third party action or bad weather
• For service changes advertised in advance

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Ah, I had assumed they had Delay Repay from the thread title. ...

I have amended the title to avoid confusion, though LO is a bit of an odd one, so confusion is understandable. We've put it under the 'Delay Repay' list in our Guide, but with a footnote that compensation "limited to delays within its control". It's like Delay Repay in terms of the level of compensation and the delay only has to be 30+ minutes, but it's like a traditional Passengers Charter scheme in that they get out of things that are not within the rail industry's control.

 

[maniacmartin]

You are correct yorkie. My memory has failed me. It's been 30 mins since at least Nov 2012

 

[horizonflame]

Interesting thanks for the input, I'll let you know what they come back with. Although I can't see how they can say an obstruction on the line isn't within their control unless they use the excuse the obstruction belonged to another TOC!

 

[yorkie]

Interesting thanks for the input, I'll let you know what they come back with. Although I can't see how they can say an obstruction on the line isn't within their control unless they use the excuse the obstruction belonged to another TOC!

What caused the obstruction? Edit: just found that: masonry from a bridge. But then that raises the question of who is responsible for the maintenance of that bridge? eg. the Highways Agency or Network Rail?

Arguably it's not within LO's control. However the NRCoC states that compensation should be paid for delays of an hour or more if the delay is within the rail industry's control.

Many delays are considered to be within the "rail industry's control" but would not in any way be within the TOCs control, any more than an obstruction on the road is within a car drivers control.

If the delay is more than an hour and it's down to Network Rail, if LO try to get out of it, I would quote the NRCoC at them.

If it's less than an hour, then arguably there is no contractual right to compensation, so if LO try to get out of it, it may be best left.

 

[transmanche]

They certainly enjoy distancing themselves from the other TOCs, and doing things 'their way'.

I suspect that at some point in the future that LO with be withdrawn from being part of National Rail and through ticketing with NR will be on a zonal basis (as per LU) rather than point-to-point.

 

[causton]

I suspect that at some point in the future that LO with be withdrawn from being part of National Rail and through ticketing with NR will be on a zonal basis (as per LU) rather than point-to-point.

Which doesn't bode well if they start taking over more services in suburban London and over the border...!

 

[bb21]

I suspect that at some point in the future that LO with be withdrawn from being part of National Rail and through ticketing with NR will be on a zonal basis (as per LU) rather than point-to-point.

Not always a good thing when LO takes over a line. Stealth fare rises for a rise for some people.

 

[transmanche]

Not always a good thing when LO takes over a line. Stealth fare rises for a rise for some people.

I guess there are always winners and losers in such situations.

We have a lot of light rail now in the country, which have bits which were formerly NR or BR; DLR, Metrolink, Midlands Metro, Tyne & Wear Metro and (although not light rail) even London Underground. So I guess LO being 'divorced' from National Rail would just be a natural extension of that.

I note that LO stations do not now show the NR logo, only the LO roundel. (Only the original temporary signs included the NR logo - when the signage was replaced with permanent signs, all trace of NR was removed.)

You can see the progression at Camden Road; from Silverlink:


Camden Road Station by Kake Pugh, on Flickr

... to temporary LO:


Camden Road by OliverN5, on Flickr

... to permanent LO signage:


Camden Road Overground station by looper23, on Flickr

 

[horizonflame]

If the delay is more than an hour and it's down to Network Rail, if LO try to get out of it, I would quote the NRCoC at them.

If it's less than an hour, then arguably there is no contractual right to compensation, so if LO try to get out of it, it may be best left.

Well, full marks to LO for speediness, two letter received today and enclosed two rail vouchers for £1.60 each. They are referred to as a refund under their charter for my delayed journey Clapham Junction -> Peckham Rye and vise versa.

 

[bicbasher]

The NR logo is still used at LO managed stations where the station has what it considers National Rail services, those include the ELL stations south of New Cross Gate, WLL stations Imperial Wharf, Shepherds Bush and Kensington Olympia.

 

[transmanche]

The NR logo is still used at LO managed stations where the station has what it considers National Rail services, those include the ELL stations south of New Cross Gate, WLL stations Imperial Wharf, Shepherds Bush and Kensington Olympia.

Well yes, obviously. But not at stations where LO is the only NR service.