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London Overground Conductors

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maniacmartin

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I was always under the impression that London Overground is fully DOO, but today I was on a train (open plan with longitudinal seating) between Clapham Junction and Willesden Junction, which had a conductor. He had an orange tabard with the Overground logo and the words "Conductor" and "Customer services" on, and announced every station and operated the doors using a T-key about half-way down the train.

Is there any reason why this train had a conductor? Do LO run their trains with conductors on certain parts of the network, specific times of the day etc?

This line was closed yesterday due to engineering work, so perhaps that had something to do with it.
 
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Monty

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I was always under the impression that London Overground is fully DOO, but today I was on a train (open plan with longitudinal seating) between Clapham Junction and Willesden Junction, which had a conductor. He had an orange tabard with the Overground logo and the words "Conductor" and "Customer services" on, and announced every station and operated the doors using a T-key about half-way down the train.

Is there any reason why this train had a conductor? Do LO run their trains with conductors on certain parts of the network, specific times of the day etc?

This line was closed yesterday due to engineering work, so perhaps that had something to do with it.

Quite a chunk of their network has operation with a guard/conductor, to my knowledge its only the ELL and the new extension to CLJ is DOO. :)
 

tsr

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Trains on the WLL and NLL (as well as GOBLIN, I believe...?) have conductors. I have been impressed by their customer service skills on several occasions.
 

maniacmartin

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I must've just not noticed them on my previous journeys on the NLL/WLL (or they stayed in their cabs)
 

yorkie

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I thought the NLL/WLL/Goblin had non-commercial guards rather than conductors. (At least) one of them is a member of this forum!
 

maniacmartin

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Perhaps they just refer to themselves as "conductors" as that will be the word that passengers will be most familiar with? "Guard" to someone who isn't familiar with railway terminology sounds like G4S security or something ;)

In some of their job adverts, they are called conductors.
 
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Searle

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I remember on the London Overground meet (before you joined actually!) there was a conductor from Willesden Junction (where we joined) round to Highbury and Islington, and they told us how the service was at every interchange, but didn't check tickets or anything :P
 

notadriver

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The only service that really need true conductors is the GOB line. On the other conductor operated lines, they could have a role similar to the On Board Manager on the Javelin trains and isn't safety critical. The OBMs on Javelin trains are highly customer service focused and can even be seen going through late night trains checking tickets!
 

leytongabriel

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And very usefull they can be too - warning NLL passengers not to get off at Gospel Oak after the last train to Barking has gone!
 

Skoodle

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Only the East London Line/South London Line and Watford DC are DOO, all the other routes have conductors.
 

313103

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Perhaps they just refer to themselves as "conductors" as that will be the word that passengers will be most familiar with? "Guard" to someone who isn't familiar with railway terminology sounds like G4S security or something ;)

In some of their job adverts, they are called conductors.

This appears to be a very old advert. Conductors salaries are now £26,800 and the working week is 36 hours pw.

The word Conductor is a word the company wanted to use, they said the word Guard is old and out of date. We still have a couple of Guards as in the old sense of the word. However a good 85% of the grade have started since London Overground started in November 2007. I would rather be called a Guard, but what i think and what i want is irrelevant.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I remember on the London Overground meet (before you joined actually!) there was a conductor from Willesden Junction (where we joined) round to Highbury and Islington, and they told us how the service was at every interchange, but didn't check tickets or anything :P

Conductors do not do revenue protection. The reason for this is down to the Penalty fares regulations where two types of systems cannot operate side by side in harmony.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The only service that really need true conductors is the GOB line. On the other conductor operated lines, they could have a role similar to the On Board Manager on the Javelin trains and isn't safety critical. The OBMs on Javelin trains are highly customer service focused and can even be seen going through late night trains checking tickets!

Why is only the GOB line the only line that needs Conductors? If the GOB line is electrifien and class 378s will then be deployed on that route odes that then mean the Conductors are then not required? This would then mean 100% DOO operation on the London Overground. London Overground would not have staff on there books that are not doing them a good service. Having staff around just for customer care on trains is a non starter. The only reason why we are still on the trains is because of our safety role, otherwise we would have been off the trains a long time ago.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I thought the NLL/WLL/Goblin had non-commercial guards rather than conductors. (At least) one of them is a member of this forum!

Not quite true Yorkie, Conductors still have it as part of their contract that revenue protection duties can still be part of their duties. The reason it isnt done is because as mentioned above the penalty fares regulations.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And very usefull they can be too - warning NLL passengers not to get off at Gospel Oak after the last train to Barking has gone!

Glad we can help.
 

bronzeonion

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I was always under the impression that London Overground is fully DOO, but today I was on a train (open plan with longitudinal seating) between Clapham Junction and Willesden Junction, which had a conductor. He had an orange tabard with the Overground logo and the words "Conductor" and "Customer services" on, and announced every station and operated the doors using a T-key about half-way down the train.

Is there any reason why this train had a conductor? Do LO run their trains with conductors on certain parts of the network, specific times of the day etc?

This line was closed yesterday due to engineering work, so perhaps that had something to do with it.

Wow! Isn't it amazing an inner suburban service in London still operated properly! Now for the rest of the TOC's to do it.
 

maniacmartin

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Can anyone comment on the reason why the ELL/SLL is DOO but the WLL/NLL/GOBLIN are not?

What is different about the ELL/SLL compared to the others which means LO do not think it requires conductors?
 

Anvil1984

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Can anyone comment on the reason why the ELL/SLL is DOO but the WLL/NLL/GOBLIN are not?

What is different about the ELL/SLL compared to the others which means LO do not think it requires conductors?

Possibly historical reasons, SLL under Southern was probably DOO and so was ELL under London Underground, did the others always have conductors in past guises
 

ert47

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Do any of the stations on the NLL have any platform monitors or mirrors installed?
 

nicobobinus

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Possibly historical reasons, SLL under Southern was probably DOO and so was ELL under London Underground, did the others always have conductors in past guises

The NLL and WLL had guards in Silverlink/313 days, and the GOBLIN had guards that undertook conductor duties (in theory - with the train stopping every three minutes or so it was often difficult to get any ticket selling done before they needed to get back to the cab, especially with 150+ pax on board at peaks)
 

bronzeonion

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Can anyone comment on the reason why the ELL/SLL is DOO but the WLL/NLL/GOBLIN are not?

What is different about the ELL/SLL compared to the others which means LO do not think it requires conductors?


Cheaper for the TOC and also yes historical reasons. If only it was consistent and all routes had conductors.
 

AlexS

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Was it also something to do with the provision of CSR - IE if there's no CSR you have to have a guard? I wonder if now GSM-R has come into play whether this will be revisited in coming years.
 

313103

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Do any of the stations on the NLL have any platform monitors or mirrors installed?

No. With the exception of Richmond, Kew Gardens and Gunnersbury and these are London Underground monitors.

Class 378s have internal and external cameras for DOO anyway, so mirrors would not be required.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Possibly historical reasons, SLL under Southern was probably DOO and so was ELL under London Underground, did the others always have conductors in past guises

Well up to the late 1980s the East London Line had Guards then London Transport dispensed with them. What is now Southern Railways had Guards on them until the EPBs were withdrawn then British Rail also dispensed with Guards.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Was it also something to do with the provision of CSR - IE if there's no CSR you have to have a guard? I wonder if now GSM-R has come into play whether this will be revisited in coming years.

As a Guard i have always lived with the threat of DOO, i was made surplus to requiremnts once by this very system when i was based at Marylebone (oh how i miss those days). GSMR is more or less fully operaational on the NLL now so the company could quite possibly visit DOO again.

The biggest threat to the Guards grade on London Overground is actually electrifcation of the Gospel Oak to Barking line. If this is given the green light, the company will dispence with the safety aspect of the role and remove the Guards from safety critical duties. At the moment Guards have to be trained in the full aspect of dooor opeartion on class 172s but once these units are removed and replaced by class 378s it could be very easy for thecompany to remove the safety aspect and introduce a spiral down of conditions and eventually a closure by stealth. Do not think i am being overly dramatic, i have been in the job to long to undertsnad the politics of railway management in what they say and do.
 
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