London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

[G123T]

Erm... yes, Elaine, of course. When passengers get served a sandwich, scone and a piece of cake on a 5 hour journey, after having paid £192 for the privilege, and are refused a second round. I'm sure passengers are thrilled. :roll:

I suspect that many people will be happier with the current offering over the old tea & coffee, water and a biscuit.

 

[Bungle73]

I suspect that many people will be happier with the current offering over the old tea & coffee, water and a biscuit.

They've never only offered that to long distance travellers.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

They've never only offered that to long distance travellers.

Yes, I was a bit confused by that comparison. I've only been travelling up and down the ECML since the end of the steam era so I might have missed some of those earlier offerings!
Though to be fair, even 20 years ago, some of the late night services (e.g. dep KGX at 10pm with long transfers of parcels & papers en route), applied quite wide interpretations of the concept of service.

 

[Blindtraveler]

what was service like 20 years ago? Im only 27 so wouldnt know lol

 

[DaveNewcastle]

what was service like 20 years ago?

I can't remember any dates clearly, but here's some recollections.
First one is just from last spring. I got quite a shock to hear the Catering Team leader make a PA announcement somewhere near Doncaster (northbound) announcing the second sitting in the Restaurant Car! It had been many years since I'd heard that announcement, which had been very common (throughout both classes) on north-bound and south-bound services in previous years. Two sittings for breakfast in the mornings, and two for dinner in the evenings.
The restaurant itself was operated as Silver Service dining, with all the linen, crockery, silverware, ice buckets and 'sirs' and 'madams' that you'd expect. (and all charged in addition to the cost of travel, as remained the restaurant policy until May 2011). Soup had not been declared a hazard by this time, and neither had sauce boats of hot gravy.

But the service elsewhere on-board had not been so remarkable - the tea and coffee may have been dispensed from silverware, but the great institution of British humour which referred to 'a British Rail sandwich' was still well fuelled with evidence during the 80's. The trolley service was basic - not a great treat.

There was a period, perhaps mid 70's to 80's, when the 'bar' carried ale pumps and pint glasses, managing to attract groups standing drinking at the bar as if it was a pub (mainly suited sales representative-types with broad kipper ties perhaps?)

My recollections of catering staff was always one of a jolly crowd, and still is, despite the odd criticism on here. But while I moan the loss of the restaurant, I can't say that the level of service in other respects has lessened, just changed, and for the better in some respects, just as eating habits and catering supplies have developed.

These were normal service trains, I don't recall travelling on any of the Pulman services on the ECML (until GNER re-introduced the term on 225s after 1990).
For many years, my own 'regular' journey home arrived into Newcastle at 1:20am after a long journey with protracted station waits, jolts at every station and maybe just a coffee or two (having eaten before travelling and more frequently in Standard). As I often fell asleep on the way, or simply didn't bother to pay attention to what staff did (and certainly didn't have mobile phones with or without in-built cameras to photograph the food!), so I'll admit my recollections are very unreliable - particularly in terms of dates. Others with better memories should be able to be more precise.

 

[Blindtraveler]

oo draft beers onboard, that sounds gooood!
RIP the restaurant

 

[Bungle73]

oo draft beers onboard, that sounds gooood!

As long as they were Real Ales, I wouldn't say no to that.

 

[YorkshireRider]

New edition of RAIL arrived in the post today - interesting article by Barry Doe in his column regarding the new East Coast catering arrangements!

Thought he had already wrote one a couple of months back???

 

[amcluesent]

The way we were...a typical menu

tomato, red pepper and basil soup;
goat's cheese and beetroot salad with walnuts and balsamic dressing;
smoked salmon tart with chive cream and poached egg;

The mains -

braised shoulder of lamb with chickpea and chorizo cassolet;
sirloin steak, chips and salad;
wild mushroom gnocchi with rocket;

Dinner inc. vino was about £25 IIRC

 

[ainsworth74]

Thought he had already wrote one a couple of months back???

He decided to do another one as according to the last issue I read he felt that he hadn't actually got an accurate picture of the new catering.

 

[All Line Rover]

Thought he had already wrote one a couple of months back???

He is simply commenting on feedback from RAIL readers and RAIL staff. He has also seen a leaked internal staff note, saying that customers travelling between Edinburgh and London should only be served food once (in contrast to Virgin, where customers are served food twice). He hasn't made any new journeys.

 

[sidmouth]

Barry Doe also referred to an internet forum where an EC catering crew wrote that they'd been advised in advance of his impending visit with a picture of him. Barry Doe now admits to having being misled and apologies to his readers for this.

 

[YorkshireRider]

He is simply commenting on feedback from RAIL readers and RAIL staff. He has also seen a leaked internal staff note, saying that customers travelling between Edinburgh and London should only be served food once (in contrast to Virgin, where customers are served food twice). He hasn't made any new journeys.

Ahh, right ok, so what did the original review say then? Sorry if its been mentioned on here already but im not going back through it all looking for it.

 

[Jeremy B]

oo draft beers onboard, that sounds gooood!
RIP the restaurant

I recall this being on HST only when they started on the London - Edinburgh route around 1978/79 but it didn't stay on the menu very long. You sometimes had to fight your way through a crowd of passengers all drinking pints of beer & smoking before you finally made it to the counter to order your 'maxpax' cup of coffee which they would plonk onto a little plastic tray to carry back to your seat.

 

[sidmouth]

Ahh, right ok, so what did the original review say then? Sorry if its been mentioned on here already but im not going back through it all looking for it.

In essence. He was given a couple of complementary EC 1st class tickets with which to sample the new complimentary service effectively as a "mystery shopper" and from which he then wrote a glowing report.

 

[John @ home]

what was service like 20 years ago?

20 years ago was a period of my life when a railway restaurant meal was a rare treat, but I have vivid memories of the service 40 years ago.

I spent much of the winter of 1970/71 working in Birmingham and returning home to Edinburgh at weekends. At that time New Years Day was a holiday in Scotland but a working day in England & Wales. But we were all sent home shortly after signing in on 1 January 1971.

This allowed me the rare treat of travelling Newcastle - Edinburgh on the Flying Scotsman. It was hauled by a Deltic; I only managed to be hauled by 4472 in regular passenger service once about a decade earlier.

That day, I was the only person to take up the offer of lunch on that service. My soup, main course and hot pudding was washed down with a third of a bottle of wine, then a novel experience for someone who was still a teenager. There were 3 or 4 catering staff to serve the sole diner and operate the buffet.

Scottish based catering crews did not work on New Years Day 1971. The southbound Flying Scotsman did not run but the Talisman did, an hour later than usual I think with the crew of the northbound Scotsman.

I apologise to DaveNewcastle that I can no longer remember whether the soup on 1 January 1971 was served from a tureen to the only passenger.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Re: beer in pint glasses at the bar

. . . around 1978/79 but it didn't stay on the menu very long. You sometimes had to fight your way through a crowd of passengers all drinking pints of beer & smoking . . . . .

Yes, I remember being both amused and annoyed. Amused that they were swaying from side to side attempting to remain upright and not to spill their drinks - as drunks do in pubs and as passengers do on trains, but they were both. And annoyed that it was hard to get to the counter. But don't remind butts that we could smoke on-board, he'll have a fit!

. . . . I can no longer remember whether the soup on 1 January 1971 was served from a tureen to the only passenger.

. . . but I expect it was!

Any more of this reminiscing and we'll all be sent off to the 'nostalgia' section.

 

[YorkshireRider]

In essence. He was given a couple of complementary EC 1st class tickets with which to sample the new complimentary service effectively as a "mystery shopper" and from which he then wrote a glowing report.

If the tickets were for a certain train only then of course management would give the heads up, if they wernt then he or the magazine must have told EC which train he was on, in either case i get the impression he knew what he was doing and rather enjoyed his journey as a result

 

[Butts]

Re: beer in pint glasses at the barYes, I remember being both amused and annoyed. Amused that they were swaying from side to side attempting to remain upright and not to spill their drinks - as drunks do in pubs and as passengers do on trains, but they were both. And annoyed that it was hard to get to the counter. But don't remind butts that we could smoke on-board, he'll have a fit!
. . . but I expect it was!

Any more of this reminiscing and we'll all be sent off to the 'nostalgia' section.

You called ......

I remember well necking the cans of McEwans Export a staple beverage of BR in those halcyon days, and getting through about 20 Bensons on a long journey. I also recollect the maxpax in all it's dishwater glory Just like a Pub on Rails - albeit an expensive one !!

 

[Darandio]

You called ......

I remember well necking the cans of McEwans Export a staple beverage of BR in those halcyon days, and getting through about 20 Bensons on a long journey. I also recollect the maxpax in all it's dishwater glory Just like a Pub on Rails - albeit an expensive one !!

But what a carefree journey!

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I remember well necking the cans of McEwans Export a staple beverage of BR in those halcyon days, and getting through about 20 Bensons on a long journey. . . . .

. . . . but can any of us rememeber what ale was sold from hand-pumps in the bar?

I think Jeremy may be correct :

I recall this being on HST only when they started on the London - Edinburgh route around 1978/79 but it didn't stay . . . . .

. . . could it have been one of those much derided beers of the era such as Watney's 'Red Barrel'?

It was hauled by a Deltic

Much as I admired the innovative design of the Deltic's engines (and still do!), it was the vigourous jolting at every stop and start (plus a few intermediate changes in speed) that distinguished those 100mph max services from today's much smoother rides. But it is a constant source of amazement to me that so many of the tight curves, poorly aligned junctions and rough crossovers make any on-board catering a challenge. Even today. I always expected the intention would be to complete the service of soup before reaching the chicane that is the the Offord curves.

 

[ALEMASTER]

They've never only offered that to long distance travellers.

What else used to be included in the First Class ticket price?

 

[Bungle73]

What else used to be included in the First Class ticket price?

I assume you mean since they introduced the complementary offer?

 

[ainsworth74]

What else used to be included in the First Class ticket price?

Nothing but you knew what you were getting and you got it every time (well probably 95% of the time). Now sure you're supposed to get food and whatnot but it seems to be very hit and miss most of the time (certainly in my experience 50% of the time it works, 25% of the time it falls flat on it's face and 25% of the time it sort of works but falls short of what's promised).

So yeah these days if I've paid £192 with the promise of free food and drink (and the adverts certainly paint a rosy picture with no mention of stringent limits) and then found that I could only get some sandwiches and scones for my money I'd be pretty annoyed.

 

[YorkshireRider]

I assume you mean since they introduced the complementary offer?

I think they meant before the May changes, so it was indeed Tea, coffee, water, oj, buscuits and peanuts, but of course as this thread never tires of telling us (even after over 2000 posts) you could buy food.

 

[Butts]

The way we were...a typical menu

tomato, red pepper and basil soup;
goat's cheese and beetroot salad with walnuts and balsamic dressing;
smoked salmon tart with chive cream and poached egg;

The mains -

braised shoulder of lamb with chickpea and chorizo cassolet;
sirloin steak, chips and salad;
wild mushroom gnocchi with rocket;

Dinner inc. vino was about £25 IIRC

When I viewed the beautifully laid table and cutlery I can understand how agrieved paying businessmen must have been with it's replacement. Only one thing missing an ashtray Wonder what they did with all the cutlery and other service items - perhaps kept in case of a u-turn.

For a "freeloader" like me the replacement is welcome but for a regular patron must be disheartening. The blue curtain has well and truly gone

 

[Bungle73]

When I viewed the beautifully laid table and cutlery I can understand how agrieved paying businessmen must have been with it's replacement. Only one thing missing an ashtray Wonder what they did with all the cutlery and other service items - perhaps kept in case of a u-turn.

For a "freeloader" like me the replacement is welcome but for a regular patron must be disheartening. The blue curtain has well and truly gone

It's the same cutlery they dish out now when you order a meal now isn't it (well maybe not so much of it)? And the FC carriages still have curtains.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

It's the same cutlery they dish out now when you order a meal now isn't it (well maybe not so much of it)?

Yes.
And your parenthesis is interesting. When the 'new offering' was introduced in May, then there was a radical change (no tablecloths, no 9 or 10 piece silverware etc), but the replacement was a simple folded grey plastic/fibre napkin-cum-placecloth-cum-wrapper, which, with a strategic slit, accommodated 2 knives and a fork (plus paper-wrapped salt & pepper sachet).

Well, in amongst all the tiny individual removals of items from the offering (which I've enumerated often enough!), even this has now been cut back to a folded grey napkin-cum-( etc.) but now without the slit and placed seperately from only 1 knive and 1 fork (plus the s+p sachet).
This is such a minor, trivial and inconsequential change that its beneath even my own threshold of significant changes. However, in the past year, we've seen so many of these minor changes, that, by attrition, they have accumulated to a quite substantial reduction in the, er, 'offering'.

So to answer your question, yes. But only a fifth of it.

. . . . . but of course as this thread never tires of telling us (even after over 2000 posts) . . . . . .

Its a very persistent little thread, isn't it?
Thank you for keeping me on my toes, I wouldn't want to fail anyone's expectations.
Unlike . . . [no, that would be a cheap shot, and quite unjustified!].
And can I just say again, that I have boundless admiration for the on-board crews who manage to keep the whole system running, whatever their manangement throw at them, whatever customers come up with, however RG decide to interpret an order, and whatever complications the network or sets introduce to their thankless task.

 

[Blindtraveler]

here here!

 

[Bridge189]

I actually prefer the current set up of mugs and the more appropriate set up of knives and folks etc. Wen FC had cups and saucers it seemed to take ages to get set up by the staff/wash and recycle the layup.

On a side note I saw a MK4 bearing a red stripe last week, it was a throwback. Apparently the White sticker covering them has never coped well in bad weather since NX put them on.