London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

[Butts]

I travelled from Edinburgh to Durham and back on the 29th December and experienced the "mid festive menu"

Outward it was a bacon sandwich plus coffee and orange juice and a further run of cofee and biscuits.(8am service).

On the way back it was Egg and Cress prepacked (better than the normal loose sandwiches I thought) cake, fruit, crisps, coffee and one booze run.

As I only paid £13.85 each way from Falkirk no complaints.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Bet the demand for complimentaries wil go down in the next few weeks as those with new years resolutions struggle to keep them.

Include me out!

. . . . experienced the "mid festive menu"

Outward it was a bacon sandwich plus coffee and orange juice and a further run of cofee and biscuits.(8am service).

On the way back it was Egg and Cress prepacked (better than the normal loose sandwiches I thought) cake, fruit, crisps, coffee and one booze run.
. . . no complaints.

Well I just have to disagree - having experienced the "mid festive menu" myself on a few journeys, its been a miserable experience. Sandwiches, pre-packed or not, are no substitute for a meal. In fact, they are the antithesis of a meal.
On a couple of journeys I'd been unable to eat a meal before travel and as a result had to wait until nearly midnight before I was home and able to cook. I've felt quite cheated by these 'snacks'.

I'm expecting the decline in the EC catering offer to continue.

 

[Blindtraveler]

count me out too Dave as I havent done Xmas this year and as iv been rushing round working and volunteering have actually lost a stone! Pitty though I agree that all il get to London today is and sarny

 

[dave87016]

Yes but even Virgin are offering the weekend menu over the festive period. with the full service back to normal tommorow

 

[Butts]

Include me out!

Well I just have to disagree - having experienced the "mid festive menu" myself on a few journeys, its been a miserable experience. Sandwiches, pre-packed or not, are no substitute for a meal. In fact, they are the antithesis of a meal.
On a couple of journeys I'd been unable to eat a meal before travel and as a result had to wait until nearly midnight before I was home and able to cook. I've felt quite cheated by these 'snacks'.

I'm expecting the decline in the EC catering offer to continue.

At the risk of repeating myself (see earlier in thread) I qualified my satisfaction as being related to the price I had paid (£13.85 e/w).

Were I to have paid "full whack" which I wouldn't, the normal offering represents a mediocre attempt at catering.

On Wednesday I am off to York from Falkirk for which I had to pay over £40 1st Class Return. At least the "full works" will be back on.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . I qualified my satisfaction as being related to the price I had paid . . . . .

Your qualification was noticed!
However, I seek to disregard that, for the simple reason that East Coast chose to provide their First Class pax with 'complimentary' catering, irrespective of the price paid. Some of my London-Newcastle journeys have cost me (singles) around £10 and some over £100 (with the majority being around £50 - £70).
But the EC catering complimentary 'offer' has no regard for the price we pay for our ticket, so it seems innappropriate and unhelpful for our debate to judge their 'offer' against our price.

This, I believe, is one of the flaws in the Company's arrangement and its efforts to 'balance the books' have only moved the problem elsewhere: by releasing more expensive FC Advances on journeys with an on-board Chef than those without, they disadvantage those who do not wish to dine.
We can expect further cut-backs soon.

 

[Blindtraveler]

agreed. As a self employed person doing a bit of everything from badly paid home bassed tellysales to voiceover work, when I have to travel I try to get the best value out of it and that can, in a month see me on a £1 megabus journey or in an EC FC coach and although unlike Dave I rarely pay full wack for this, I am quite up for chosing to pay a certain amount for a0good meal and therefor object when I cant. That said though, sometimes I do enjoy the freebees.

 

[Butts]

Your qualification was noticed!
However, I seek to disregard that, for the simple reason that East Coast chose to provide their First Class pax with 'complimentary' catering, irrespective of the price paid. Some of my London-Newcastle journeys have cost me (singles) around £10 and some over £100 (with the majority being around £50 - £70).
But the EC catering complimentary 'offer' has no regard for the price we pay for our ticket, so it seems innappropriate and unhelpful for our debate to judge their 'offer' against our price.

This, I believe, is one of the flaws in the Company's arrangement and its efforts to 'balance the books' have only moved the problem elsewhere: by releasing more expensive FC Advances on journeys with an on-board Chef than those without, they disadvantage those who do not wish to dine.
We can expect further cut-backs soon.

I totally endorse what you have said and was trying to empathise with the fact the current package falls well short of a "premium product".

Faced with paying £100 for a train journey between Newcastle and London I would let "the plane take the strain" especially since they have opened up the "smoking facility" airside at Newcastle Airport.

I didn't realise they had advances related to the availability of on onboard chef - any idea if there will be one onboard the 1753 from York on Wednesday?(to Edinburgh)

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I didn't realise they had advances related to the availability of on onboard chef - any idea if there will be one onboard the 1753 from York on Wednesday?(to Edinburgh)

All-day offer.

 

[Butts]

All-day offer.

What no Chef....I'll be demanding my outrageously expensive £21 back
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
A poor show on the 0830 Edinburgh to York this morning !!!

Should have been back to the "Full Breakfast" but only Bacon Sandwiches, Porridge or Salmon and Scrambled Egg available.

With what happened yesterday stocks should have been at an all time high in Edinburgh

My own belief is that they "bottled it" because 1st Class was quite busy - I nearly didn't get a table of 4 for myself after I'd shelled out the princely sum of £21 for my ticket from Falkirk to York. Why do some "dummies" sit in the seat allocated (often a single) by EC when there are "4's" going free.

I had a Bacon Sandwich that had what seemed about one rasher in it !!!

Why are they so tight on the toast , a guy adjacent to me only got one slice and he hadn't elected for any cooked option.


However they redeemed themselves on the return 1753 York to Edinburgh bound for Aberdeen.

Coffee and Biscuit Run minutes out of York swiftly followed by the drinks trolley.

Menus handed out after Darlington I ordered a Chilli Jacket Spud (spud u like have nothing to worry about) but edible. More coffee and booze and meal delivered after Newcastle.

A much better crew on the northern leg

 

[DaveNewcastle]

What no Chef....

That's what I fear we'll find more often.
Their contracts were only renewed for 9 months - back in May.

Why do some "dummies" sit in the seat allocated (often a single) by EC when there are "4's" going free.

Shhhh!!
Don't let them know that there's 2 empty coaches on every train!

I had a Bacon Sandwich that had what seemed about one rasher in it !!!

Why are they so tight on the toast , a guy adjacent to me only got one slice and he hadn't elected for any cooked option.

However they redeemed themselves on the return 1753 York to Edinburgh bound for Aberdeen.
. . . .
A much better crew on the northern leg

So consistency remains as it has been 'traditionally'.
[For the benefit of those who find criticism of EC objectionable, I must explain that 'traditional' is EC-speak for anything which passengers enjoyed but which, after listening to customers, they withdraw. Examples include after meal chocolates. Such as before-meal napkins, such as the promised cappuccino, such as the hand towels, such as the choice of vegetables, such as soup, such as a bread basket, such as butter, such as salt and pepper cellars, such as the stated increase in 'Rewards' points from 500 to 900 for a First Class ticket, etc., etc.
The passengers who asked for all of these and who were 'listened to' will be delighted]

 

[Bungle73]

What no Chef....I'll be demanding my outrageously expensive £21 back
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
A poor show on the 0830 Edinburgh to York this morning !!!

Should have been back to the "Full Breakfast" but only Bacon Sandwiches, Porridge or Salmon and Scrambled Egg available.

With what happened yesterday stocks should have been at an all time high in Edinburgh

My own belief is that they "bottled it" because 1st Class was quite busy - I nearly didn't get a table of 4 for myself after I'd shelled out the princely sum of £21 for my ticket from Falkirk to York. Why do some "dummies" sit in the seat allocated (often a single) by EC when there are "4's" going free.

I had a Bacon Sandwich that had what seemed about one rasher in it !!!

Why are they so tight on the toast , a guy adjacent to me only got one slice and he hadn't elected for any cooked option.


However they redeemed themselves on the return 1753 York to Edinburgh bound for Aberdeen.

Coffee and Biscuit Run minutes out of York swiftly followed by the drinks trolley.

Menus handed out after Darlington I ordered a Chilli Jacket Spud (spud u like have nothing to worry about) but edible. More coffee and booze and meal delivered after Newcastle.

A much better crew on the northern leg

I'd rather sit in a single seat tbh. That's why pick one when I book it.

That's what I fear we'll find more often.
Their contracts were only renewed for 9 months - back in May.

Shhhh!!
Don't let them know that there's 2 empty coaches on every train!

So consistency remains as it has been 'traditionally'.
[For the benefit of those who find criticism of EC objectionable, I must explain that 'traditional' is EC-speak for anything which passengers enjoyed but which, after listening to customers, they withdraw. Examples include after meal chocolates. Such as before-meal napkins, such as the promised cappuccino, such as the hand towels, such as the choice of vegetables, such as soup, such as a bread basket, such as butter, such as salt and pepper cellars, such as the stated increase in 'Rewards' points from 500 to 900 for a First Class ticket, etc., etc.
The passengers who asked for all of these and who were 'listened to' will be delighted]

I'm not sure if that's aimed at me, it probably is so I'll reply. I don't find criticism of EC "objectionable". What I find objectionable is people who keep going on about this FC ticket thing like EC made a solemn oath about what the new requirements would be. No promises were made at all.

 

[Jock]

I'd rather sit in a single seat tbh. That's why pick one when I book it.


I'm not sure if that's aimed at me, it probably is so I'll reply. I don't find criticism of EC "objectionable". What I find objectionable is people who keep going on about this FC ticket thing like EC made a solemn oath about what the new requirements would be. No promises were made at all.

135 pages and this thread is still going?

I think the criticism mark may also be aimed at me aswell. I do believe in constructive criticism and have no problem with it, however when time and again normal hard working human beings are blamed and criticised for things out with of their (sp) control then I cannot agree with it.

135 pages (and yes, I've followed this thread aimlessly since I joined the forum and watched from afar) and 80% of it is nonsensical criticism. People have gone on and on about this first class 'offer' and its many guises since May 22nd like it is enshrined in law - when it is not.

If anybody of course has a solution to the problems, complaints and whines well documented in this topic then I'm sure EC's head of catering division or whatever title they have these days will be more than happy to listen. Although you'd think the amount of complaints posted here that none of you would travel first class any more having had what would seem like many a bad experience.

 

[Blindtraveler]

oh but they already have listened, very carefully, and then gone on with what they wanted anyway!
As to just moans, some of it has Id say been positive!

 

[amcluesent]

No jam for the croissants in FC lounge yesterday. Help ma' boab!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Yes but even Virgin are offering the weekend menu over the festive period. with the full service back to normal tommorow

Did a Manchester and a Birmingham trip Thursday / Saturday last week on VWC and I have to say the 1st class loadings were very light indeed - less than 6 on a return from Manchester.

(Standard as busy as ever , with no take up virtually of the £10 upgrade)

 

[Butts]

Did a Manchester and a Birmingham trip Thursday / Saturday last week on VWC and I have to say the 1st class loadings were very light indeed - less than 6 on a return from Manchester.

(Standard as busy as ever , with no take up virtually of the £10 upgrade)

Probably because I believe you can't upgrade an advanced 2nd class ticket.

 

[All Line Rover]

Probably because I believe you can't upgrade an advanced 2nd class ticket.

You can on Virgin. They should publicize it much more. Last week I was talking to a number of people in the (Standard Class) waiting room at Euston, and none knew that they could upgrade to First Class (and use the First Class lounge beforehand) for just £15 during the entire Christmas period. One lady, who was waiting 3 hours for her train, dashed off to the ticket office!

There were no posters in any station mentioning this offer, and only a few Train Managers announced it on-board.* If more people knew about the upgrade I'm sure much more would upgrade.

*And the announcement of "passengers can upgrade to First Class today on payment of a supplement," is not a very good advert as most people think the "supplement" will cost a fortune!

The current prices are not very attractive for most people anyway (except those living between Wolverhampton and Coventry). From Euston or Milton Keynes, the upgrade should be £8 to Rugby, £10 to Wolverhampton / Stafford / Crewe / Stoke, £12 to Wilmslow / Macclesfield, £15 to Manchester / Liverpool / Chester / Preston / Wrexham, £20 to North Wales / Carlisle and £25 to Glasgow. (It would be more difficult to price the upgrade between other stations - especially Route F, although I'm sure it could be done).

EDIT: I think the upgrade could be £7.50 between any other stations, except to/from Glasgow or Edinburgh where it could be £12. There is no need for any cheaper First Class upgrades for people travelling short distances (e.g. Wolverhampton to Coventry, Crewe to Manchester, Warrington to Wigan, etc...) as the current First Class prices are already cheap.

A map could easily be produced showing the new prices - they just have to copy their current map and add "zones" to it!

 

[jon0844]

It does seem to make sense to offer upgrades on board any Intercity train if there's room (off-peak and weekends) to everyone. Even someone who paid a few quid will be giving the railway an extra £10 or £15 - easy money. And for what, sitting somewhere else and maybe consuming a couple of quids worth of liquid and food?

You might find too many people upgrade, but surely you do it on a first come first served basis - but I really can't imagine a weekend train that has a load of near empty first class carriages suddenly getting full up!

 

[All Line Rover]

It does seem to make sense to offer upgrades on board any Intercity train if there's room (off-peak and weekends) to everyone. Even someone who paid a few quid will be giving the railway an extra £10 or £15 - easy money. And for what, sitting somewhere else and maybe consuming a couple of quids worth of liquid and food?

You might find too many people upgrade, but surely you do it on a first come first served basis - but I really can't imagine a weekend train that has a load of near empty first class carriages suddenly getting full up!

To introduce a First Class upgrade on weekdays would be very complicated. It might put people off buying First Class tickets.

The simplest solution would be to offer cheaper First Class tickets on Off-Peak weekday trains. Introducing a reasonably priced "First Off-Peak Return" would be an excellent idea (and I think this has been discussed before).

I appreciate that Virgin offer their cheapest First Advance tickets on a plethora off Off-Peak weekday trains, but First Class is still very quiet! Trains from Manchester to London on a weekday afternoon often have a number of empty First Class coaches. And I can see why - £12 for Standard Class against £36.50 for First Class does seem steep. If they introduced a £25 First Advance fare and promoted this heavily, and sure they'd put even more bums on First Class seats, and please Standard Class customers at the same time!

 

[ainsworth74]

It does seem to make sense to offer upgrades on board any Intercity train if there's room (off-peak and weekends) to everyone. Even someone who paid a few quid will be giving the railway an extra £10 or £15 - easy money. And for what, sitting somewhere else and maybe consuming a couple of quids worth of liquid and food?

I agree wholeheartedly however (steering us vaguely back on topic ) on EC at least the Weekend First Upgrade is a rip off in my view. For journeys between London - Wakefield/York and north it's £25 to upgrade, for anything south of those points (including Hull) and any non-London journeys it's £20. For what you get that seems mighty steep to me.

 

[YorkshireRider]

The £20 upgrade was reduced to £15 a while ago now but the £25 remains which i agree is a bit hefty

 

[calc7]

I appreciate that Virgin offer their cheapest First Advance tickets on a plethora off Off-Peak weekday trains, but First Class is still very quiet! Trains from Manchester to London on a weekday afternoon often have a number of empty First Class coaches. And I can see why - £12 for Standard Class against £36.50 for First Class does seem steep. If they introduced a £25 First Advance fare and promoted this heavily, and sure they'd put even more bums on First Class seats, and please Standard Class customers at the same time!

Probably partly because:

• The big price differential you mention
• More business travel at the peaks, i.e. these people are unlikely to be going both ways off-peak
• The fact that the complimentary offer is less appealing at some times of day. It's only 2 hours from London to Manchester/Liverpool/Chester/Preston, off-peak the trains are rarely *that* busy. Ok, so I could probably delay lunch and eat on the train, but I hardly want 4 G&Ts at that time; probably not overly fussed for triple coffee and biscuits either!

 

[All Line Rover]

The fact that the complimentary offer is less appealing at some times of day. It's only 2 hours from London to Manchester/Liverpool/Chester/Preston, off-peak the trains are rarely *that* busy. Ok, so I could probably delay lunch and eat on the train, but I hardly want 4 G&Ts at that time; probably not overly fussed for triple coffee and biscuits either!
[/LIST]

I agree. First Class is nice for breakfast or in the early evening, but if you're travelling around lunch or in the late evening, on a train where Standard Class is quiet and pleasant, a Sainsbury's Meal Deal will do. The simple solution would just be to cut the number of Off-Peak trains. (Which Virgin actually asked for a while ago, and were flatly refused by the DafT. :roll

 

[Furrball]

Travelled from Aberdeen to KX today. Once again no menus on the tables.

Service from Aberdeen to Edinburgh was very good, with a nice bacon sandwich and plenty of tea, all with friendly service with the staff being very clear about what was available.

Unfortunately a different story on the leg from Edinburgh. The trolley comes around and the member of staff simply asks if we would like any food. When asked what is available she only mentions the sandwiches, it is only when asked about the hot option are we told about the jacket potato. This seems to be a regular occurance - is it that it is too much of a hassle to serve the hot option and therefore on occasions like this it is 'unadvertised'?

One final observation, from my g/f, was that very few of the catering staff make eye contact when serving you - something that surprised her.

 

[Essexman]

London to York & return yesterday.

Out on 10.30 and sandwiches brought round soon after Kings Cross. Hot food on menu but not mentioned by staff.
At that time in the morning I'd rather have had a bacon sandwich but made them an early lunch, although wish I'd gone to buffet for bacon toastie.

Return, afternoon tea was nice and again there was hot option on menus but it was not offered by staff. Chef brought jacket spud to person opposite.
But with chef so under employed why couldn't he be cooking better choice of food?

I'd gladly have bought breakfast going out and at seat meal on return - if only!

 

[philjo]

New edition of RAIL arrived in the post today - interesting article by Barry Doe in his column regarding the new East Coast catering arrangements!

 

[All Line Rover]

New edition of RAIL arrived in the post today - interesting article by Barry Doe in his column regarding the new East Coast catering arrangements!

Ha! What a wonderful article!

Elaine Holt: "I need to say that EC has a lot of happy customers, and I think to be honest that some of your comments are wide of the mark."

Erm... yes, Elaine, of course. When passengers get served a sandwich, scone and a piece of cake on a 5 hour journey, after having paid £192 for the privilege, and are refused a second round. I'm sure passengers are thrilled. :roll:

 

[jon0844]

Statistically there are probably lots of happy customers, given the service can sometimes be good. She isn't lying, but that's not quite the same as telling the truth!!

Sent from my Sinclair Spectrum via Tapatalk

 

[ainsworth74]

Any other choice quotes from the article and for that matter what's Doe's revised conclusion on EC catering?