London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

[Murphyen]

Currently on the 1350 from Aberdeen. Boarded at Leuchars and it took over 3 hours for food to come round. When it did, it was half a round of stale sandwiches served by harassed (albeit sweet steward) because 'no food had been put on at Edinburgh'. Really disappointed in East Coast today.

 

[premier01]

According to NFM 09 the SOR is £292 whilst the FOR £390 so it was a very good value ticket (doesn't exist anymore I don't think however) it would be interesting to find out how many EC actually sold on their services. There was a bit of promotion (I saw the odd poster on station platforms) but it never seemed to be heavily marketed.

That was a good deal-so can understand why anyone using this package would miss this and be annoyed with the new 'improved' service.

 

[silentone]

I believe that the 'costs' include a proportion of the access charges for the rail network, a notional access charge for the TOC's rolling stock (the restaurant and kitchen), access charges incurred by RG at their stations and warehouusing and crew space in those stations (all added to their costs and therefore charged on to the TOC) and of course the catering staff (incl time spend travelling pass.) and quite low down the list, the stock.

The second of these (charge for rolling stock) is, of course, a sleight of hand, as the coaching stock is either used to convey passengers who do not eat in the restaurant or to convey passengers who DO eat in the restaurant. i.e. the cost is independent of the operation. Its the same passengers, and same revenue, but their seats are only charged as a 'cost' if they eat in the restaurant and not if they eat 'at-seat'.

As for the other costs, they are all borne by the TOC whether they run a restaurant or not. The only difference is that if there IS a restaurant, then all these costs quickly fall into the 'restaurant' cost-centre and if there is not a restaurant, then they fall into general service operating costs.

Accountancy is one the UK's most lucrative Creative Industries. That shouldn't come as a surprise - the UK's biggest earner is the financial sector. The second are the Creative Industries.
Its very tempting to conclude that all financial reports are world-class fiction.

I'm not sure why you're responding to my post with that. I know exactly what the losses are but I wouldn't feel comfortable to list them!

 

[Skimble19]

Currently on the 1350 from Aberdeen. Boarded at Leuchars and it took over 3 hours for food to come round. When it did, it was half a round of stale sandwiches served by harassed (albeit sweet steward) because 'no food had been put on at Edinburgh'. Really disappointed in East Coast today.

Thats Rail Gourmet's fault, not East Coasts.. Rail Gourmet transfer the trolleys to the trains.

 

[Failed Unit]

I'm not sure why you're responding to my post with that. I know exactly what the losses are but I wouldn't feel comfortable to list them!

One that springs to mind instanty is a 1st class coach. Serving a meal between London and York may get you £40, much less profit as you need to buy the food. Selling the seat will get you a lot more hence mega loss. The trains with the restuarants were the heavier loaded ones, on a few occasions I have being asked what seat I should be in while eating so a full fare passenger could have the seat. But that is what you get when you diagram a HST on a busy peak London - Scotland service.
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Has the Scottish Executive offer gone now?

Still sold and from Glasgow too, you just need to add via Falkirk to the route to get it. Safer to have London zone u12 as the destination.

But other 1st class tickets had included first the various park and dines. They were priced at the same time as the anytime first return. I guess the could afford to do that as they didn't share revenue with other operators on the EC only ticket. The only ones you only got tea, coffee and biscuits on were the advance tickets. Not many people bought the anytime when the exec package offered the same things (apart from using GC / XC / emt / virgin to get home)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Another thing to note about the Scottish exec, if you are travelling on the 0540 it is cheaper than the standard options for that time of day. Will it survive? I doubt it! Will I remain loyal to east coast when it goes? Nope, may use virgin now the catering offers are the same or even fly if the price (including taxis to/from airport) and buying a decent meal at the airport is less.

 

[Murphyen]

Thats Rail Gourmet's fault, not East Coasts.. Rail Gourmet transfer the trolleys to the trains.

That's as may be, however, do you really think passengers know or care? Ultimately it's EC's responsibility to provide the service they advertised.

 

[silentone]

EC have invested heavily to ensure RG have the facilities to provide the service EC require. If RG fail to provide the agreed service level then EC are compensated, but at the end of the day if RG fail to deliver something then there is very little EC can do at that given time.

I have been less than impressed with RG since the new service started, from failing to deliver, arriving minutes before departure to load, having no stock (one depots seems to have been short of the same items since Friday), and finally creating random crazy on the spot rules when it suits them. On Day 1 I was told I could not get a cart because there was not enough dwell time, my train was 10minutes early and I managed to offload 5 carts while they loaded on my additional stock I had ordered. It just so happened that the lift was broken at that station... go figure.

Days later another depot failed to replace all my carts of dirty crockery and it was arranged that at the next possible depot all my carts would be replaced if I brought them to a certain door. I did so and on arrival I was told by those delivering my carts they were only authorised to replace 3, only one of them was of use and one was empty.

This has all been reported back but at the moment RG are failing the route and there are a number of things that need to be looked into particularly the communication between the crew of the train and the depot at any given time.

There's been reports of dirty carts being re-delivered, carts which have been washed have been washed poorly... the list goes on and on and on.


The losses are real genuine losses and not down to selling a seat rather than a meal, the new offer works like this however. I do also believe the HST's have more seats than a MK4 set. The MK4 may well have an extra carriage in First but overall the HST is seen as providing the most capacity.

 

[caliwag]

Jeez, we must thank you Silentone for your candid response. I genuinely hope it all settles down pal. ECML catering has been wonderful, and wouldn't it be superb to say...yeah they've hit the spot, yrain is good...

 

[silentone]

It's been a difficult week for all, and not an ideal week to start off a complete new service.

 

[Blindtraveler]

It is sad that RG are failing the system like this although in a way im unsurprised. From a passengers point of view i've been less than impressed with some of there other opperations e.g standard at-seat on EMT but understand this is an entirely different level of opperation and therefore had different expectations.

The majoritty of customers wil vent there anger on the front line staff which is both unfare on them as individuals and on EC as a whole as those same people will go say 'oh you see that east coast? Its crap!'

i wish everyone the best in resolving it and hope that RG can learn to provide the same high standards as the crews aspire to.

 

[Failed Unit]

Silentone - not going to dispute the fact the the Hst has more seats than the mk4, but does it have more 1st class seats than the mk4? Reason I ask is the 1700 is a lot more difficult to find a 1st seat since it was switched to a HST last year. Not used it in standard, but is it that full in standard, that people paying £300 for a 1st open may risk not getting a seat?

Week 2 of new offering for me, time to see if it is still vastly inferior to what was offered before.

Anyone know how long it took Virgin to become slick?

 

[Blindtraveler]

vaigly remember traveling virgin fc round a month after it started and the first crewe were v good, 2nd were not so good, this was a breakfast/mid morning pendo from Scotland.

 

[Failed Unit]

Thanks Blind traveller, I from the taking 1h23 minutes to serve drinks and sandwiches (and not offer hot food) I guess we can put that down to getting used to the system. Lets hope they iron out the problems quickly, just minor details such as the train I am on at the moment has no menus in coach L, so you have no idea what you may want to ask for.

I love the advert at Edinburgh Waverley - something like - "Free Breakfast and Evening meals on longer journeys" - I know that it is not exactly what it means but yes they journeys north are certainly longer than they used to be!

So journey 3, seems to be the same ways journey 2 in the sense that no menus mean that no-one has a clue what is offered. In coach L a passengers ask the crew taking bacon sandwiches into coach M how they get one. Just ask came the reply, to which the passenger responded but how do you know what is on offer? We were offered the toast / pastry very early, but no-one in coach L mentioned the bacon roll. Too late for me anyway to be honest, if I was using this service I would have normally taken a burger at about York. I expectations are low to be honest I have already had breakfast so not wanting a bacon roll because I can, I have a strong feeling that I will be getting something to eat at Kings Cross, but providing menus is something very basic, surely they haven't all being stolen?

My low expections were not disappointed, the lunch offer was 2 bacon and egg sandwiches, again nothing hot. On the possitive side the connection at York for people needing the stopping service was cross-platform and reasonably loaded. Still slight late running throughout and the coffee / drinks service very frequent. However the catering offer is much, much worse on this service as well. How can a couple of free sandwiches be an improvement on the option to buy a burger? For me on business I will remain in first but may use Virgin / air more to get to London than I used to, leisure where I don't need to work standard is calling! It does make me wonder what the poor chef that is onboard is doing with their time!

 

[Blindtraveler]

as said before i've stil not tried new service and wil reserve judgement til then but as someone who flys or goes fc for longer trips a slow service I may have paid more for dont do it for me. Im sure it wil all work out though

 

[Failed Unit]

as said before i've stil not tried new service and wil reserve judgement til then but as someone who flys or goes fc for longer trips a slow service I may have paid more for dont do it for me. Im sure it wil all work out though

I hope things improve by the time you get to sample this, but from my personal experience this is a definate downgrade. If I was new to rail I would not be repeating the travel in first class based on the new offering. All the other benefits of a quite coach, better to work etc still apply but the chance of decent food offering certainly is a negative. Before I would know that I would most of the time had something nice to eat on the train, rather than as now have the need to find something upon arrival at Kings Cross.

 

[Skimble19]

Blimey Failed Unit.. you really did like your burgers. We get the picture - the service at the moment is still a little ropey in places - give it time!

As for all this about the restaurants.. most people couldn't care less about them, hence why they no longer exist.

 

[Failed Unit]

Blimey Failed Unit.. you really did like your burgers. We get the picture - the service at the moment is still a little ropey in places - give it time!

As for all this about the restaurants.. most people couldn't care less about them, hence why they no longer exist.

I liked the at seat service in general, may have overplayed the burger but the variety was there. Salads, bangers etc. But even the panini was more filling then what is on offer now. A bit ropey is an understatement. This is a major downgrade. Not having menus on the tables to even have a guess at what is on offer can't be blamed on gate gourmet.

 

[Essexman]

I can understand if not agree with the case to reduce or stop restaurants, but not at seat dining. Perhaps this should ahve been marketed better both off & on the train. For example I usually had a desert but always had to ask - this was never offerred. East Midlands train staff tend to ask if you want anything from the food menu whereas usually on East Coast you had to ask.

It has gone from a good choice of good quality freshly (chef) cooked meals to a limited choice or nothing hot. I shall treat it like airline food - assume it will be rubbish & eat before or after - and it's a bonis if they do serve something I actually want.

What a shame that the once superb catering on this line is now trying to mimic what planes offer.

 

[Failed Unit]

The thing the have not replicated from the airlines is match the offer to the distance. You always got more choice on a 5 hour flight to a 2 hour flight. Catering loses money we get it but even Ryanair offer choice if you want to pay for it! Yes we can walk to the buffet, again a downgrade from having what was at the buffet delivered to you seat. The menu isn't even on-line yet. If you board at Edinburgh, it is a long way until London.

 

[YorkshireRider]

The menu rotated today, a day early this week, i dont know why, maybe because yesterday was a bank holiday. Anyway for whatever reason this weeks menus were only due to be delivered to York today so a message came out last night to collect all menus in and the new ones would be distributed from York asap, given the breakfast and mid morning offer is the same except one item which rotates it would have made more sense to leave last weeks menu out till 11am then collect them, but management knows best:roll:. Because the menu has changed a day early it appears the new hot option this week which is the beetroot risotto is not yet in stock and may not be available till tomorrow, i only hope the chef train meals are delivered on the evening meal trains or that will be peak time trains leaving with just sandwiches and chicken salads, not exactly great. It should be 4 sandwiches, not 2. I dont know why crews are giving 2, unless they are short of stock and trying to make it stretch, they should also be cake,crisps, buiscuits and fresh fruit on the food trolley with trains running an all day menu, but mant are not. As far as i was aware you could order again next time the food offering comes around if you so wished, yet some crews say this is not the case. This needs to be sorted by management sooner rather than later because at the momement its all a bit of a shambles with no consistant offering from one train to the next.

 

[Failed Unit]

I certainly feel for you people on the ground, you are getting well shafted by the company. I have heard nothing but negative feedback (which I can back up by my own experience) at the moment. Teething problems? Ok I can accept that but will the people who have upgraded to try the offer be more forgiving? I seem to be a little unlucky that I have had extra demand because of volcanos and a bank holiday on 2/3 journeys so far.

 

[jon0844]

I wonder why EC didn't delay its TV advertising until they ironed out all the problems? Surely management expected problems for the first few weeks, even first few months (being realistic).

 

[amcluesent]

IMHO the '70 minute' rule is encouraging south-bound crews think their 'job is done' when they've got to PBO.

My service out of PBO this morning was distinctly slap-dash -

1) The coffee was undrinkable, gritty treacle
2) No attempt was made to pass out newspapers to pax joining at PBO although there was bundle sitting on the work top between K and L
3) The trolley service was perfunctory, you had to know what was there and ask for it, rather than be offered
4) The crew seemed much more interested in having a blether up at the prepararion area in K, so the 'quiet' coach wasn't

Defintely a step backwards in service.

Update: Well northbound out of KGX wasn't too clever either! No menu booklets on the tables and there wasn't any sight of food trolley or food orders being taken by the time we pulled into PBO (and I was in K). Just very slow or is this a new policy by EC not to offer anything in case PBO pax cadge a few sarnies?

There's a huge gap between the PR and the delivery right now!

 

[silentone]

The menu's are late, I'm guessing the change is a day early because they ran out of last weeks offer! I do believe the menu's were working their way around today as they were due in at Lunchtime.

Believe it or not the menu situation is now controlled by Rail Gourmet, they now supply the trains with menu's.

As for the 'food trolley', I guess if the service is busy then it could be Peterborough before it makes an appearance what with the handing out of drinks now becoming a mammoth task. I have also noted that crews are not bothering to take orders leaving Kings Cross - now this isn't for any particular reason other than they are assuming everyone is eating.

Of course if you are only travelling to Peterborough then all you missed was a biscuit!

Not sure what the coffee is all about, it's simply a case of emptying the packet into the filter and pressing the start button.

Other than on here, I've heard no real negative feedback. Today was quite the opposite infact, maybe that's just my crew! I guess people are used to what we had before and expect the new service to be delivered in the same manor.

I did notice today nobody wanted a meal, but then I didn't have any menu's and it was down to me to offer them. I got sick of saying the two dishes over an over and nobody wanting them so I gave up! hahah! I have also lost count of the number of times I've used the word 'complimentary'.

 

[Failed Unit]

I wonder why EC didn't delay its TV advertising until they ironed out all the problems? Surely management expected problems for the first few weeks, even first few months (being realistic).

I guess they wanted the impact straight away, but the infrastructure has let them down big time again. Coupled with the teething problems of the menu it probably would be better waiting. Hindsight and all that, the have an email address linked from their website for comments. I suggest we all use it.

Silentone - Are you working the Leeds or Edinburgh route? Most trains from Edinburgh had at seat catering. My personal experience is 2 sandwiches and a packet of crisps or fruit cake on the all day offer. Better than a kick in the teeth but not filling. So unfortunately for me no hot offer (a choice would be wonderful) my only sight of a menu was on the press launch 0540 Edinburgh - kings cross. Hopefully my luck will change tomorrow, but again I can see the offer beign as good as the previous three course meal included in the ticket price, even if I did pay for wine.

 

[38Cto15E]

I do not live on the ECML line so I do not travel that route too often, although I am booked on the Highlander in First next month.
The daytime Hot dishes do not sound very inspiring, what is it Beetroot Risotto, and last week Vegetable Biryani?
Could East Coast not replicate the Eurostar food and drink method on the Kings Cross-Scotland trains?

 

[StrollerEd]

... if people start taking food from the station into 1st it will tell it's own story. I will check the menu and may be doing exactly that if I don't fancy what is on offer. Never had a day in the restaurant when I didn't fancy anything on the menu.

good point
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
been away from this newly found forum - traveling by two connecting flights to Luxembourg. Each flight was between one and two hours' long, and the food was minimal but OK as snack - even in Economy- and at £177 overall for the return it was.

But the argument that flights fit the catering to the length of the flight, and that EuroStar can effectively do the same is instructive. Those who 'commute from PeterB (and it seems Yoirk) have different needs from those who make longer distance journeys.

Could they be segregated - physically (via the reservation process) or by the 'ownership' of an issued voucher?

The idea of having to buy a M&S (other brands available) picnic for First Class travel on the LKX to Edinburgh journey is terrble indictment.

 

[shinkansen1966]

Next month on a Friday, travelling on the 10:00 King Cross to Aberdeen and first class all the way, lucky me ! The East Coast timetable indicates this train has a full breakfast. Is that the case ?

 

[YorkshireRider]

Next month on a Friday, travelling on the 10:00 King Cross to Aberdeen and first class all the way, lucky me ! The East Coast timetable indicates this train has a full breakfast. Is that the case ?

No, a full english will not be offered on that train, it is the mid-morning offer leaving KX, Bacon toastie, danish pastries and toast and depending what week the menu rotation is on when you travel another option will be available, which will maybe be porridge or salmon or yogurt or eggs and mushrooms. After York sanswiches, and a salad or hot option and off course booze

 

[amcluesent]

Well, my PBO-KGX this morning was the 1st one I've ever got the promised selection of croisant, OJ, coffee and water.

Northbound, coffee was done before pulling out of KGX and the drinks were within 10 minutes, plus they had the pots of cheesy pastries.

Sarnie trolley was just behind, and should I had been travelling further than PBO I could have had some quite nice egg and bacon sarnies and crisps and then offered cheese and biscuits.

Everything delivered as per the menu booklet, the calibre of crew seems to make a big difference. I hope this is the end of the "teething problems"...