London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

[wintonian]

I certainly recommend, the smoked salmon, it was just about right, potatoes were a bit cold though, but the salmon veg wasn't and it was very nice.

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[ainsworth74]

Well that's certainly better than when I had it as I got a hunk of salmon (which was very nice I have to say) with some carrots and new potatoes and that was it! There was certainly plenty of empty plate even before I started eating.

 

[wintonian]

Apple crumble very, very nice.

Here comes the drinks trolley again and I haven't finished the first one yet.

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[wintonian]

Druid torly has just been through again closely followed by tea and coffee.

I haven't even got to York, yet I have had more alcohol than I had coming back from Haymarket going to Kings Cross in the entire trip.

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[marks87]

Druid torly...

I have had more alcohol than I had coming back from Haymarket going to Kings Cross in the entire trip.

I can tell

 

[wintonian]

I promise (hic) that (hic) I didn't (hic) have anything before (hic) I got on. (Hic, hic)

(Dam android spell chucker.)

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[All Line Rover]

Secondly, there were disproportionate numbers in 1ST as a consequence of the vigourous promotions throughout the year (most of which undermined the traditionally higher prices of 1ST which of course deter many passengers).

I would be far more interested to know the percentage rise/fall in revenue from First Class fares instead of the percentage rise/fall of journeys made. (I am aware that FOI requests have been made, which I am keeping an eye on).

No offence to Butts, but there is no benefit to a TOC of having 10 Butts travelling on dirt cheap £10 First Advance fares (), instead of having 1 businessperson travelling on a £100 FOS fare and paying for food from the restaurant on top of that! Statistically speaking, the TOC has seen an absolutely fantastically brilliant 100% increase in First Class journeys made! But financially speaking, the TOC has made a loss.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Yes - but a pleased off peak , discounted 1st class passenger will (a) hopefully travel again when there are cheapish deals (b) Tell friends / neighbours how good rail is.

The best marketing is one to one on experience - as well as the usual modes.

There is an unbelievable interest here in food service on trains (especially on VWC) - maybe there is a latent demand for more food offers.

When I were a lad , even as a student I could afford early BR HST lunches - including cheese and celery ...... I told my friends and family , and they partook.

 

[calc7]

Maaaan, if every service were like wintonian's or the one I reported about a month ago, this would be brilliant.

 

[wintonian]

Maaaan, if every service were like wintonian's or the one I reported about a month ago, this would be brilliant.

Especially if EC pay for it, like they will be for this one.

Not that £29.50 is bad, almost seems like crime to claim the delay repay on this one.

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[telstarbox]

Just seen EC are advertising First Class on TV again (it's shorter than the previous advert).

 

[jon0844]

Just seen EC are advertising First Class on TV again (it's shorter than the previous advert).

They've had to cut back that too!!

 

[ex-railwayman]

Train operator East Coast’s complimentary food and drinks service and new timetable has helped to achieve the highest number of First Class journeys for five years.

• Highest number of First Class journeys for five years on the East Coast route
• Sustained rise in First Class travel – up 21% in ten months following new service launch
• New timetable and complimentary food and drinks behind success

The train operator’s flagship capital-to-capital route linking London and Edinburgh, saw an even larger 36% rise in First Class journeys, again between the end of May and 4 February 2012, compared with the same months in 2010-11.

Hmmm, unsure if complimentary food and drinks are going to sway folks to use any train, it's nice that it becomes available once on board, but, it's hardly a carrot-on-a-stick, I daresay.
I used to fly from East Midlands Airport down to London, years ago, but, since there were no internal flights whatsoever from the East Mids south, I had to either use a coach, or, train to get from a-b, which I would think is one of the major factors in the increase in passenger revenue on both the ECML and MML, not the freebie snap.

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.

 

[All Line Rover]

This latest advert is HIGHLY misleading.

Section 1: http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/25reasons

Section 2: http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/reasonstobook2

So East Coast are claiming that you can have breakfast AND afternoon tea AND sandwiches, are they? Perhaps during the 5 hours from London to Edinburgh? I look forward to it. :roll:

 

[wintonian]

This latest advert is HIGHLY misleading.

Section 1: http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/25reasons

Section 2: http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/reasonstobook2

So East Coast are claiming that you can have breakfast AND afternoon tea AND sandwiches, are they? Perhaps during the 5 hours from London to Edinburgh? I look forward to it. :roll:

I don't see where they are claiming that, they just omit that important detail as they have always done.

 

[blackfive460]

The thing that amuses me is that, among all the latest first class promotions they keep telling us that numbers travelling first class have grown considerably since the new offer came in.
If that's the case then why do they have to keep offering all these bargain prices?
Certainly hasn't worked with me I'm back in Standard these days. At least I can be sure what I'll get in there...

 

[Butts]

I would be far more interested to know the percentage rise/fall in revenue from First Class fares instead of the percentage rise/fall of journeys made. (I am aware that FOI requests have been made, which I am keeping an eye on).

No offence to Butts, but there is no benefit to a TOC of having 10 Butts travelling on dirt cheap £10 First Advance fares (), instead of having 1 businessperson travelling on a £100 FOS fare and paying for food from the restaurant on top of that! Statistically speaking, the TOC has seen an absolutely fantastically brilliant 100% increase in First Class journeys made! But financially speaking, the TOC has made a loss.

Just spotted this - I quite agree with your sentiments "freeloaders" like me are not going to make East Coast a lot of money.

As I have previously stated were I paying hundreds for a fare rather than tens I would be most unimpressed by some of the offerings.

On my next trip from Falkirk to Newcastle in April I have had to pay £15.95 for the return leg (£13.10 outward) for this I will be expecting Fillet Steak and a good Cognac

 

[Greenback]

The thing that amuses me is that, among all the latest first class promotions they keep telling us that numbers travelling first class have grown considerably since the new offer came in.
If that's the case then why do they have to keep offering all these bargain prices?
Certainly hasn't worked with me I'm back in Standard these days. At least I can be sure what I'll get in there...

Presumably the loadings have gone up because of the bargain fares - hence it is a carefully designed strategy so that EC can say 'look, it must be good as we have all this growth'.

 

[MarkyMarkD]

I don't agree, wintonian. It certainly reads as a constant flow of food and drink from breakfast through to afternoon tea.

 

[wintonian]

I don't agree, wintonian. It certainly reads as a constant flow of food and drink from breakfast through to afternoon tea.

It may give that impression but they don't actually claim that there is this constant flow.

It's cleverly worded.

and they could claim the phrase; "Complimentary offer varies depending on time of day and the journey being made ..." implies this, but that seems a bit far-fetched IMO.

 

[Greenback]

It may give that impression but they don't actually claim that there is this constant flow.

It's cleverly worded.

Most adverts are cleverly worded, and EC's are no exception! They create an idyllic impression without actually guaranteeing what you will experience.

 

[calc7]

Take it all in as you enjoy a selection of complimentary snacks and refreshments13- perhaps, even, a chilled glass of Chilean Sauvignon Blanc14.

At least they've been honest here. A glass of wine is all you're likely to get!

 

[D1009]

Take it all in as you enjoy a selection of complimentary snacks and refreshments13- perhaps, even, a chilled glass of Chilean Sauvignon Blanc14.

At least they've been honest here. A glass of wine is all you're likely to get!

And only perhaps !

 

[Yew]

When I did my trip from edinburgh to newark, Im pretty sure I consumed the £15 differance between the first and the standard fare (it was in their last promotion)

2x 50ml bottles of Bells whiskey say £7
1 little can of Pedigree say £2
1 Jacket potato say £3
1 nutty tart thing say £3
1 Pack of crisps say £1
a Few sandwiches say £2

so thats £18 of stuff that I ate/drank, from a £15 upgrade. Okay they obviously get it cheaper than that, but they probably only made a few extra quid off me, and since it was an offer I wouldnt be suprised if they made a loss overall

Personally I would bring back either a restaraunt car, or at seat service (at least in first class, maybe at standard if there was space, and reduce the free offerings to drinks, biscuits and sandwiches (bacon cobs in the mornings)

 

[wintonian]

When I did my trip from edinburgh to newark, Im pretty sure I consumed the £15 differance between the first and the standard fare (it was in their last promotion)

2x 50ml bottles of Bells whiskey say £7
1 little can of Pedigree say £2
1 Jacket potato say £3
1 nutty tart thing say £3
1 Pack of crisps say £1
a Few sandwiches say £2

so thats £18 of stuff that I ate/drank, from a £15 upgrade. Okay they obviously get it cheaper than that, but they probably only made a few extra quid off me, and since it was an offer I wouldnt be suprised if they made a loss overall

Personally I would bring back either a restaraunt car, or at seat service (at least in first class, maybe at standard if there was space, and reduce the free offerings to drinks, biscuits and sandwiches (bacon cobs in the mornings)

Yep and last time I reckon I got nearly the whole £29.50 fare back out of them.

Which reminds me I have forgotten to put in a claim for 100% delay repay for that trip.

 

[ainsworth74]

Right EC have got back to me on that FOI I submitted and have buried me under an electronic pile of documents some of which is interesting/useful and some of which is guff. I've attached nearly everything to this post in PDF format for perusal at anyones leisure.

Anyway a quick breakdown on what's worth your time (if your short of it) from my skimming I would suggest that Appendix A (i), B, D, E and F (i) all have interesting sections to them.

A (i) is the on-board services handbook and is fairly general in scope basically laying out procedures and what not for the day to day operation of an EC train. B is a powerpoint presentation that has a few interesting slides in it. D is a comprehensive break down of the catering offer going as far as giving exact portion information and even how to cook it using the on board catering equipment. E contains letters between EC and the DfT and a couple of MPs most of it's just fobbed off by EC spin but there is an interesting document contained within that which is the New On-Board Service Announcement which has some interesting bits and pieces in it. Finally F (i) is the questionnaire that seemingly showed that passengers wanted complementary food and drink the relevant question being on the Catering SP on page 12.

Now the bad news. I can't attach Appendices A (ii) or E to this post as they're to big to be attached due to the settings that the forum have in place. So unless a friendly moderator is willing to give me dispensation to post them the only way you're going to see them is by PM'ing me your email address (I promise not to sign you up to spam lists ) as there is no way in hell I'm going to type that little lot out! Having said that I'm going to play around and see if I can't find away of getting them broken down into smaller forum friendly chunks.

EDIT: Many thanks to mirodo as it's now possible to get the two missing documents from here:

Appendix A (ii): https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_QlG-N0lVmJME5iUDA5LXJUM0NYcmRHUDZmYkxJUQ
Appendix E: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_QlG-N0lVmJbWNEZXczX2xUaXVha2hsYV9va2J5QQ

As to the financials for those that either can't or don't want to open the relevent PDF:

As requested, we can confirm that in 2010 the first class catering costs were £18.12m and the first class catering revenue was £4.99M. In 2011, the costs were £22.52m and first class catering revenue was £1.25m. Within the 2011 costs are the costs incurred through all catering staff attending the two-day customer service training referred above. Please note that we have used the closest rail periods to the calendar years for this analysis - 10 January 2010 until 8 January 2011 for 2010 and 9 January until 7 January 2012 for 2011.

As a result of the new catering offer being implemented we have seen a considerable uplift in first class passenger journeys [ainsworth74: nothing to do with the special offers I'm sure :roll:] with first class revenue growth of 13%. In the equivalent periods in the previous year, in line with the established trend, first class revenue declined by 9%. Had the first class offer not been introduced, we would have expected this trend to continue therefore the net benefit of the first class offer will be approximately 22% first glass revenue growth in the financial year 2011/12. The value of the revenue growth exceeds the 2011 first class catering costs.

Anyhoo I hope some of you on this thread find something interesting in amongst this little lot! Happy reading

 

[amcluesent]

At least I can be sure what I'll get in there...

My experience of EC standard last week were horrid, 99% of the angst due to pax it must be said. I'll be happy to fork out for FC!

 

[mirodo]

Now the bad news. I can't attach Appendices A (ii) or E to this post as they're to big to be attached due to the settings that the forum have in place. So unless a friendly moderator is willing to give me dispensation to post them the only way you're going to see them is by PM'ing me your email address (I promise not to sign you up to spam lists ) as there is no way in hell I'm going to type that little lot out! Having said that I'm going to play around and see if I can't find away of getting them broken down into smaller forum friendly chunks.

I can upload the docs to my Gmail account and create a public link to them. Have sent you a PM with my email address.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
OK, I've received the 2 appendices from ainsworth74; here they are:

Appendix A (ii): https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_QlG-N0lVmJME5iUDA5LXJUM0NYcmRHUDZmYkxJUQ
Appendix E: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_QlG-N0lVmJbWNEZXczX2xUaXVha2hsYV9va2J5QQ

 

[wintonian]

Please note the portion for each customer is 4 quarters per person.

So now we know, although there appears to be no such restriction for the evening meal service.

 

[philjo]

Appendix D page 5:

• Toast is not included in this offer due to the complexity of the need
for a plate, butter, preserves etc. unless the breakfast starter trolley is
being used at the time of delivery of the offer to the customer.