London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

[Butts]

Well yesterday's 0650 from Glasgow surpassed all previous attempts at being stingy by a country mile.

I boarded at Edinburgh where the full service was done - no issues.
There was a crew change at Newcastle which is where the service became laughable.
It now turns out you are allowed one glass of orange juice, forget a second slice of toast, you have no chance. I was going to request some more juice when the chap behind me asked. He was asked for some more juice and was asked where he had boarded and was then informed that he was only allowed something off the trolley once. When challenging it he was informed that it also applied to juice. He ended up buying some from the buffet car but was not impressed.

Oh God - the "toast famine" is back :roll:

Shame they were not filming that service for the East Coast Documentary airing on Sky at the moment.

Was the service busy ?

 

[Chrism20]

Oh God - the "toast famine" is back :roll:

Shame they were not filming that service for the East Coast Documentary airing on Sky at the moment.

Was the service busy ?

I was in K and it was less than half full. Had a quick look in L when nipping to the loo and it was about the same so no not really.

Am on the 18:00 back up the way atm and its as laughable.

No chilli for the BPs due to a 'supplier issue'
The dessert orders were taken and we were told there was no cheese then a member of staff comes through and asks who's having the cheese.

The service is very slow and it seems as if the crew don't know what they are doing. Normally I get the 17:00 and its a regular crew most of the time however this evening the Crew Leader is exceptionally young and appears out of his depth.

 

[MichaelJP59]

After a couple of days commuting from Sheffield-Leeds on CC 1st I must say EC 1st is generally much better, despite the problems. Main points being the much more spacious accommodation, and not forgetting the offer of free beer, wines and spirits.

 

[Tetchytyke]

There does seem to be an issue with the supply chain, when I've got the 1700 it's hit and miss if dinner or the all-day menu is served and the 1730 always seems to run out of dessert. I can understand EastCoast wanting to minimise wastage but it really does feel like they're taking it too far.

Do EastCoast have the ability to store unused food on the train? Cheese will keep for weeks in the fridge if it is wrapped up properly and the puddings often have more than a hint of the "bought in bulk from the freezer shop" about them.

 

[Bishopstone]

And this is why I haven all but given up on EC first class service. The food provided is not a substitute for a meal. Bring your own picnic.

Did they ever claim to be operating a 'free' restaurant service in First Class?

My expectations of First Class inter-city travel are more space, a quieter environment, better seating and, these days, inclusive hot drinks and WiFi. EC do all of that along with some snacks, too. I don't think they ever promised to replace a meal you would otherwise take at home, did they? (Cooked breakfast aside, as per Virgin).

 

[ainsworth74]

That isn't what their advertising suggested when they first made the change from a paid for restaurant/at-seat dining...

Indeed they're advertising now rather suggests a bit more than just a snack.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Did they ever claim to be operating a 'free' restaurant service in First Class?

http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/on-board-our-trains/food1/complimentary-food-and-drink1/

I'll let you decide what the following sentences imply

First Class is now better than ever. With a complimentary meal for longer journeys...

Welcome to our new winter menu – bringing you homely food favourites, award-winning cheeses and fine wines.

At East Coast, we do everything we can to make you feel at home on board...

Telling someone they can't have a second glass of orange juice, or two slices of toast, isn't making someone feel at home.

 

[A-driver]

http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/on-board-our-trains/food1/complimentary-food-and-drink1/

I'll let you decide what the following sentences imply





Telling someone they can't have a second glass of orange juice, or two slices of toast, isn't making someone feel at home.

They do offer a meal. What an individual's perception of a meal is is an opinion but offering pie and chips etc, no matter how small, is a meal. They don't advertise that it will be all you need to eat that day, that should be common sense.

As for feeling at home, many hotels hope to make you feel at home but will still have restrictions on giving out food and drink. Breakfast may be included in your room tariff but if you wanted extra then you would expect to have to pay.

 

[Blindtraveler]

OK so some foalk may be taking it to far but 0here have been more than a few hints at stingyness lately. Been to Aberdeen twice this week once standard East Coast and once first on Scotrail. Got to say I had the same trolley dolley both ways on SR and 3 rounds of coffee each way on 2h20m long tourneys. Last East Coast First trip I made I only managed 2 coffees in 4 hours, where under the old pre May 201? System it would have been 3 times that!

 

[A-driver]

OK so some foalk may be taking it to far but 0here have been more than a few hints at stingyness lately. Been to Aberdeen twice this week once standard East Coast and once first on Scotrail. Got to say I had the same trolley dolley both ways on SR and 3 rounds of coffee each way on 2h20m long tourneys. Last East Coast First trip I made I only managed 2 coffees in 4 hours, where under the old pre May 201? System it would have been 3 times that!

This is what I don't really understand here, why would you need to drink 3-4 coffees or teas in under 3 hours?! Do you do that at home? It seems people just want stuff because it's free, not because they need it.

 

[Blindtraveler]

simple answer, Yes. I work from home a lot and generally have 1 cuppa per hour, more first thing in a morning and with a switch to decafinated after round 14:00. Pre may 2011 this would not have been a problem to an EC First Class host but no longer.

 

[Bungle73]

They come round with coffee after every station don't they? Seems enough to me when I've travelled with EC. I've been up to my ears in coffee and wine.

 

[A-driver]

simple answer, Yes. I work from home a lot and generally have 1 cuppa per hour, more first thing in a morning and with a switch to decafinated after round 14:00. Pre may 2011 this would not have been a problem to an EC First Class host but no longer.

I think you are in a minority there though and should you require more coffee I'm sure you could ask, or it's probably fair to suggest purchasing extra at the buffet as they are providing you with the free drinks advertised.

 

[Tetchytyke]

They do offer a meal. What an individual's perception of a meal is is an opinion but offering pie and chips etc, no matter how small, is a meal. They don't advertise that it will be all you need to eat that day, that should be common sense.

That wasn't what Bishopstone said though. He said that EastCoast don't promise "a meal you would have at home" and therefore you shouldn't expect more than a snack.

Arguing over a second slice of toast, or running out of dessert on the most expensive peak trains out of London, is not providing "a meal you would have at home". Also the peak evening trains out of London are promoted as having a full dinner service. Dinner is not a sandwich and a packet of crisps and neither is it a tiny slice of vegetable lasagne with a lettuce leaf.

Restrictions are fine. I wouldn't expect a meal to "last me all day". But arguing about a second piece of toast just belittles the service.

Of course I'll be more tempted by something if it is free, but I do drink industrial quantities of tea at work as well as when I'm travelling.

 

[Butts]

They do offer a meal. What an individual's perception of a meal is is an opinion but offering pie and chips etc, no matter how small, is a meal. They don't advertise that it will be all you need to eat that day, that should be common sense.

As for feeling at home, many hotels hope to make you feel at home but will still have restrictions on giving out food and drink. Breakfast may be included in your room tariff but if you wanted extra then you would expect to have to pay.

If any hotel served up a breakfast like East Coast in terms of both quality and quantity they would quickly be out of business- bad comparison.

In a Hotel at breakfast you can often get things not on the menu or varied ie poached instead of fried egg. As for more toast and coffee that is the norm on demand from my experience.

A lot of Hotels are self-service for the meal with perhaps toast and coffee served by the staff. There's a thought to give East Coast a coronary
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This is what I don't really understand here, why would you need to drink 3-4 coffees or teas in under 3 hours?! Do you do that at home? It seems people just want stuff because it's free, not because they need it.

Why don't they just have a "help yourself" drinks facility in the carriage like they do on Aeroplanes ?

 

[A-driver]

If any hotel served up a breakfast like East Coast in terms of both quality and quantity they would quickly be out of business- bad comparison.

In a Hotel at breakfast you can often get things not on the menu or varied ie poached instead of fried egg. As for more toast and coffee that is the norm on demand from my experience.

A lot of Hotels are self-service for the meal with perhaps toast and coffee served by the staff. There's a thought to give East Coast a coronary
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Why don't they just have a "help yourself" drinks facility in the carriage like they do on Aeroplanes ?

East coast offer a train service, they are not a restaraunt like a hotel. As for help yourself-would lead to a huge increase in costs as people would take the mik.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Good idea. With the coffee thing, Iv slowly noticed the number of rounds Iv been getting reduce over the months and the last 3 trips iv taken have been very poor. Even Scotrail have noticed! This is saying something as I used to call them stingy!

 

[sheff1]

I don't think they ever promised to replace a meal you would otherwise take at home, did they?

What does the slogan 'A taste of home... ' mean to you then ?

The accompanying photograph entitled 'Chicken, Sage & Onion Stuffing and York Pud, Roasted baby herb potatoes, natural jus & broccoli' displays exactly the sort of meal one might take at home.

 

[Blindtraveler]

to me - coffee when I want it and a meal thats eddible. Maybe EC management think we all have toasters that snap at you when going to make an extra slice or fridges that lock shut when you have run out of OJ or fancy a pud? Maybe they just need to get reall and tell us what youl really get and therefore our expectations as customers will be lower? Having just paid £70↲to Virgin for a Glasgow London breakfast service I know that for that I woant get the oliver twist treatment when my coffee cup is empty. well done East Coast, youve lost a customer and made him get up earlier and go out of his way!

 

[Butts]

East coast offer a train service, they are not a restaraunt like a hotel. As for help yourself-would lead to a huge increase in costs as people would take the mik.

You chose to use Hotels as a comparison not me

Self-Service seems to work okay in other places so why not on a train. It averages out as for every glutton (like me ) , a lot of people will have little or nothing.

 

[Tetchytyke]

East coast offer a train service, they are not a restaraunt like a hotel. As for help yourself-would lead to a huge increase in costs as people would take the mik.

So why did you compare it to a hotel?

Nearly every hotel I've stayed at has a buffet breakfast. B&Bs don't, but they also don't bitch at you for daring to want a second slice of toast or a bit more orange juice.

As for "people would take the milk", pfft. If Starbucks can leave the milk jug on the side without it growing little legs, I'm sure EC can.

 

[jon0844]

Why don't they just have a "help yourself" drinks facility in the carriage like they do on Aeroplanes ?

I do wonder why they can't just have a few flasks of tea and coffee on a table for people to help themselves too, along with biscuits or fruit, as was common when travelling in Denmark and Sweden (first class).

I have mentioned that you'd probably get people from standing coming in too, and thinking nothing of it, but I suppose it depends on where you set it up.

Maybe EC wants to try and look good with the at-table/seat service, but it doesn't work if they don't really want you having refills.

Now I feel bad for having about five cups of tea from Leeds to London on a Sunday (having upgraded with Weekend First). This was before the 'new' service though.

As for "people would take the milk", pfft. If Starbucks can leave the milk jug on the side without it growing little legs, I'm sure EC can.

I do think A-Driver is right though. Sadly, I get the distinct feeling that people would abuse or steal anything left out. Then moan when such a privilege is eventually taken away.

Imagine if they had a fridge with soft drinks and even beers for first class passengers to enjoy. How long would it be until someone decided to empty the contents into their bag to enjoy off the train?

You could do that on a plane, but perhaps that's because first class is somewhat different.

Many years ago, Burger King tried out unlimited refills on drinks at its Tottenham Hale restaurant. I saw people coming in and filling up various containers who didn't even buy anything! It was quite hilarious but obviously didn't go unnoticed and soon enough, it was back to getting the drink filled behind the counter and no refills.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I don't think flasks of tea and coffee out on the side would be good on a train. I can see H&S having a fit about it. I just don't think people are going to nick a carton of milk. Virgin put the little bottles of water out in the fridges in the carriages, those water bottles are not expensive. EastCoast put the little bottles of water out in the lounges, and you don't even have to be a first class passenger to go in there these days.

I actually think a lot of the issues simply boil down to the staff in question. Some of the crews are extremely generous- the last few times I've caught the 1730 they've practically been forcing top ups of wine into my glass (not that I was objecting all that much). But them some of them hand out the freebies like they're paying for them themselves. That is an attitude I don't understand, unless they're targeted on how little they give out.

There does seem to be a bit of frugality in terms of ordering food, though. As I say, I can understand East Coast not wanting to pay for wasted food, but there should be enough hot food and dessert for their expected load in first class. The last few times I've got the 1700 and 1730 that hasn't been in the case; either I'm unlucky or they are not ordering enough food.

I would imagine Burger King stopped the free re-fills for a number of reasons, and I doubt cost. The cost of a glass of soft drink, made up from the syrup, is miniscule. Ikea still do them and there, if you have a Family Card, they are truly free.

 

[YorkshireRider]

I don't think flasks of tea and coffee out on the side would be good on a train. I can see H&S having a fit about it. I just don't think people are going to nick a carton of milk. Virgin put the little bottles of water out in the fridges in the carriages, those water bottles are not expensive. EastCoast put the little bottles of water out in the lounges, and you don't even have to be a first class passenger to go in there these days.

I actually think a lot of the issues simply boil down to the staff in question. Some of the crews are extremely generous- the last few times I've caught the 1730 they've practically been forcing top ups of wine into my glass (not that I was objecting all that much). But them some of them hand out the freebies like they're paying for them themselves. That is an attitude I don't understand, unless they're targeted on how little they give out.

There does seem to be a bit of frugality in terms of ordering food, though. As I say, I can understand East Coast not wanting to pay for wasted food, but there should be enough hot food and dessert for their expected load in first class. The last few times I've got the 1700 and 1730 that hasn't been in the case; either I'm unlucky or they are not ordering enough food.

.

Yes I think you are more or less bang on with this post, it sadly can be the staff sometimes, some just seem to hate the passengers and begrudge giving stuff away. There is certainly no ruling that passengers cant have more juice or toast, and I have never worked a train which has run out of bread or juice at breakfast time. Yes sometimes the ordering is still cocked up but that is happening much less these days. Maybe on busy trains putting some drinks on the work stations in the first class vestibules would not be a bad idea but hot drinks as you say would be a no no. There are certain sections on the ECML where you really get thrown around.
By the way A Driver said take the mik, not milk, as in take the mickey

 

[Butts]

If they offer goodies in The Lounges on a help yourself basis, I don't see why they can't do it on the Train.

Last lounge I used was the Virgin one at Birmingham International.

They have a machine for Coffees etc with proper cups.

There was a fridge with soft drinks and water in.

The snacks were grab sized bags of Walkers, Assorted Biscuits, Cake and Fruit.

No one was emptying the fridge with a holdall - seemed to work quite well.

It also had the cleanest toilet in the Station inside.

 

[ryan125hst]

There does seem to be a bit of frugality in terms of ordering food, though. As I say, I can understand East Coast not wanting to pay for wasted food, but there should be enough hot food and dessert for their expected load in first class. The last few times I've got the 1700 and 1730 that hasn't been in the case; either I'm unlucky or they are not ordering enough food.

This problem extends to the standard class buffet car as well. I went to London with my family back in July and we intended to buy sandwiches onboard (we were on the 12:39 from Retford). I had picked up a menu from a trip to York earlier in the month so we all knew what we wanted. My Mum and I walked to the buffet car just before we arrived into Newark to find that there were only four sandwiches left, and only one of them was what we had chosen. My sister doesn't like mayonnaise so I had to walk back down the train and ask her what she wanted- in the end she had a sandwich with it in anyway (chicken I think). Me and my parents ended up having a ham and cheese toasty. It was OK, but it could have been better. They also weren't cheap and it took until about Peterborough until we had got everything, buy which time the teas were almost stewed!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I've never travelled First Class so can't comment on the service, but from what I've seen in this thread over the last couple of years, the food side of things need sorting out massively.

Do you think that East Coast should offer drinks and snacks (e.g. tea, coffee, crisps, biscuits) complementary and go back to the restaurant car for meals? Maybe First Class passengers would be able to get a discount, while standard class passengers (who would also be allowed to use it subject to availability, as before) would pay full price. Maybe an at seat meal service should also be offered, again as it was before.

Standard class food is also a problem and, in particular (aside from the lack of sandwiches!) there are limited hot food options. Am I correct in thinking they offered pizzas, burgers and maybe ready meals years ago (during GNER days). I was looking at FGW's travelling chef menu a couple of days ago and there is certainly more hot food for the standard class passenger, all of which is available at seat for those in First.

 

[Blindtraveler]

in a word, Yes. We have sadly been told time and again that it woant happen though!

 

[ryan125hst]

in a word, Yes. We have sadly been told time and again that it woant happen though!

Who from? East Coast themselves?

 

[Tetchytyke]

I completely disagree about the restaurant car and hope those days don't return. The people who want the restaurant car back are mostly those who wanted the freebie upgrade to first class that you got as part of the deal.

I travelled first class occasionally before 2010 and it was not worth the money. A couple of mugs of tea are not going to tempt me to upgrade and certainly aren't going to allow me to justify it to the boss, especially as wifi was free in standard class at the time. The food you could buy was better than it is now, but then when they charged £10.95 for a burger and potato wedges it bloody well should have been.

But now I travel first class a lot more. I'll gladly pay the extra on an advance ticket out of my own money, knowing I'll be getting something for it. And I can justify the extra expense of first class to my boss too, when I'm on business, as he won't have to pay my subsistence costs if I travel first class.

East Coast were entirely right and proper to upgrade the first class offering and get rid of the restaurant.

When they do it right, they really do it right. I've caught the 1730 and wine has been served at my seat before we even left Kings Cross, with dinner being a delicious salmon fillet with cheese and coffee and whiskey for dessert. It was wonderful, restaurant quality service. And that is part of why they're getting complaints; not ordering enough food leaves those who miss out extremely angry and upset.

By the way A Driver said take the mik, not milk, as in take the mickey

Haha, so he did! He should spell proper next time

 

[ModernRailways]

I've never had a problem with East Coast's First Class other than once or twice.

Every train I've been on out of London has had food. Only once they didn't have the dessert I wanted, but I was quite happy with the cheese selection and it actually got me into some new cheeses that I had never had before!

When I've been in First Class on the 2000 it's odd to think that just a few coaches along a group of young women wearing next to nothing are swearing their heads off and causing mayhem and a huge mess for the cleaners. Meanwhile I'm in relative peace with the only noise being that coming from the clattering of plates as the crew have tidied away.

First Class to me is more of a way to escape the (sometimes) mayhem of Standard Class and get something to eat/drink out of it.

I will admit when I book East Coast I do always expect a meal on board, if one wasn't supplied then I would get quite hungry as I don't take extra snacks with me!