London Network

[A60K]

As to having different boundaries, I still find it odd that a travelcard for one zone can be used on buses in any zone... I never quite understood that. That said it might not even be the case any more, I'm not sure!

It is still the case that a Travelcard is valid anywhere on the TfL bus network regardless of zones. IIRC this was introduced in the early 2000s, so effectively the zones are irrelevant to the bus network now. I can't remember exactly why this was, although it was certainly pragmatic given the low frequency of on-bus ticket inspection and the lack of any check on passengers alighting from the bus.

The last element of zonal or distance pricing on the buses was abolished before Oyster PAYG was introduced, when a flat fare was introduced for single journeys rather than the higher fare for a central London journey.

 

[Ivo]

I mention G for two reasons:

(1) As with Potters Bar et al, the buses are partially TfL-run. I'm not sure if you can use Travelcards on TfL routes there, though. All Arriva routes in Grays are either TfL contracts or operated from Southend. (There are independent routes operated by EnsignBus, the proprietors of City Sightseeing.)

(2) Oyster Cards are valid in Zone G, although again someone will have to clarify their use on the 370 bus between Lakeside and Romford.

[And sorry for not having noticed the post directly above this.]

 

[tripleseis]

In Potters Bar, some of the routes aren't actually run by TfL. Metroline's Route 84 for instance isn't contracted by TfL, so Oysters and Travelcards are only valid to Potters Bar Cranbourne Road, with the rest of the route to St Albans with higher fares applicable (not sure how much it is though). The same for UNO's 614 to Hatfield between Queensbury and Barnet St Albans Road - beyond which it's normal fares only. They accept Oysters/Travelcards/London Fares as TfL judge them to be beneficial to the Greater London bus network. Also, as both of these routes are not run by TfL, they can use LED dot matrix displays rather than blinds as required by contracted routes.

Route 81 Hounslow to Slough, is TfL contracted hence travelcards/Oysters/TfL fares apply along the entire route even though Slough is well outside zone 6 and the TfL area. (Even all the bus stops along the entire route outside Greater London have LT Roundels).

 

[A60K]

I remember in the good old days you could find LT bus stop flags way out in the countryside - after deregulation most of them disappeared unfortunately!

To add to the TfL sponsored service issue, I believe there are some routes run within Greater London by independents, not as part of the TfL network, instead under London Local Service Agreements.

On these services the buses may not have Oyster readers, but if you show the driver an Oyster card he'll then only charge you the Oyster single fare in cash rather than the full cash price for the journey. Sounds weird, but I'm sure that's what I read at some point in the past.

 

[christopher]

(2) Oyster Cards are valid in Zone G, although again someone will have to clarify their use on the 370 bus between Lakeside and Romford.

Oysters can be used between Lakeside And Romford on the 370 aswell as the 372 from Hornchurch to Lakeside

 

[jon0844]

What was the story with TfL and blinds? Before you had a main destination and more info below - yet it was considered too small for partially sighted people.

So, now NOBODY can get that extra info. I guess that's equality!

LED boards can be very clear (newer ones with more individual LEDs) and change from one bit of info to another, so I wonder why London buses can't use them?

 

[A60K]

It does seem strange that having changed the blind spec a couple of years ago to the number and final destination only they won't allow electronic displays.

The last TfL (LT) bus that I can remember having an electronic display was a London Central Leyland Titan with a flip-dot display in the early to mid 1990s.

I believe LRT still have their comprehensive display of blinds with via points, but not many other operators do now. Which reminds me that the South Western class 455s used to have two blinds, not always set in harmony with each other - 'Hampton Court' 'via Weybridge' !

 

[christopher]

It does seem strange that having changed the blind spec a couple of years ago to the number and final destination only they won't allow electronic displays.

They allow electronic operated blinds but not LEDs

 

[90019]

I believe LRT still have their comprehensive display of blinds with via points, but not many other operators do now. Which reminds me that the South Western class 455s used to have two blinds, not always set in harmony with each other - 'Hampton Court' 'via Weybridge' !

If you mean Lothian (They haven't been LRT for a good few years now ), yes they do.
There's one bus - 846, SN57 DDX - which has LED displays front and back as a test, but they're not very nice to look at compared to the normal blinds, and as such, it hasn't been done to any others

 

[A60K]

If you mean Lothian (They haven't been LRT for a good few years now ), yes they do.
There's one bus - 846, SN57 DDX - which has LED displays front and back as a test, but they're not very nice to look at compared to the normal blinds, and as such, it hasn't been done to any others

I'm behind the times! Yes, Lothian Buses was what I meant - glad they've still using the full displays.

 

[90019]

I'm behind the times! Yes, Lothian Buses was what I meant - glad they've still using the full displays.

An example of them on one of the newest buses (Gemini 2 - 926, SN09 CVL).


(Click for slightly larger)

Interestingly, the numbers are on a single blind, rather than having separate ones for each digit.

 

[LMS6202]

What was the story with TfL and blinds? Before you had a main destination and more info below - yet it was considered too small for partially sighted people.

So, now NOBODY can get that extra info. I guess that's equality!

LED boards can be very clear (newer ones with more individual LEDs) and change from one bit of info to another, so I wonder why London buses can't use them?

The bus displays in the North East are mostly LED's now. With main Destination above and a scrolling points called below. Not the case with Simply go's number 10 though. That has Metrocentre above and the ultimate destination below which is a bit cockeyed and confusing IMO

 

[W-on-Sea]

Of the stations in Zone G:
There are no TfL buses in Grays itself;

Chafford Hundred (or rather: not Chafford Hundred itself, but Lakeside shopping centre) has two TfL Routes - 370 and 372 (plus the First London commercial route 265, which I think doesn't take travelcards/oyster cards). (Ensignbus are the sole operator in Chafford Hundred itself, although the 370 did used to go here, as indeed it used to go to Grays and to Tilbury)

Ockendon has the 370 and (somewhat infrequent) 347.
(There is one Essex County Council tendered route, the 269 from Brentwood to Grays, operated by Imperial, that passes by, and through the edge of Greater London, around North Ockendon, too: I don't think that Travelcards are valid, despite it being, for a bit, within Greater London)


Purfleet: no TfL buses.

In fact Arriva now only operate one route in Grays (as opposed to from their Grays garage) - the 5 all the way through to Basildon and Southend. Apart from a few Thurrock and/or Essex County Council tendered services operated by the likes of Imperial, Clintona, and I daresay other small operators that escape my mind.
Ensignbus are the main operators there, and indeed across Thurrock as a whole now - with a small network of mostly commercial routes, a few brand new buses, and generally maintaining the high reputation that they have gained for themselves on each of the occasions on which they have operated passenger bus services.

I presume it was c2c's enthuisasm to establish a ticketing element of an "extended metro" service that led to zone G being invented: traditionally (unlike Potters Bar) the buses there were London Country (and their various successors), not red London buses. (Indeed the 370 was only formally brought into the TfL network quite recently, and the 372 is a newish route). That....and some of the cheaper fares they used to offer (e.g. weekend special returns) were abolished within zone G once Oyster availability was extended there...

It's a slightly different situation from places like Waltham Cross/Abbey that are (only) just outside of Greater London (so the station is outside the zones), but, also a natural or well-established bus terminus for buses into Greater London. But there are numerous inconsistencies around the edge of Greater London as to how these are treated. It surely would make sense to bring that into the zones.