London Midland unit fire 26/11/15

[FordFocus]

172s are fitted with onboard hot axle box detectors just like the 220 and 222 fleets because of the bogie design.

Look at the videos it looks like an issue with the transmission and engine drivetrain, no where near the wheels.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Just as a thought, when these trains were first introduced, they were well known for having absolutely crackin' a/c. They were always arctic inside. Now, I guess the A/C wouldn't be on at the moment, but still, it makes me wonder about hot equipment to do with the air con system.

Would that be in about the same location?

 

[superkev]

I can't find anything on the RAIB site about the previous or this 172 fire.
K

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Just as a thought, when these trains were first introduced, they were well known for having absolutely crackin' a/c. They were always arctic inside. Now, I guess the A/C wouldn't be on at the moment, but still, it makes me wonder about hot equipment to do with the air con system.

Would that be in about the same location?

Air conditioning will be on all the year round.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

LM have been having problems with the turbochargers on these units for several months resulting in much short forming on Snow Hill line services. This latest incident has made it much worse, over 100 short fomed services on the route yesterday and almost as many today.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

LM have been having problems with the turbochargers on these units for several months resulting in much short forming on Snow Hill line services. This latest incident has made it much worse, over 100 short fomed services on the route yesterday and almost as many today.

Can the Snow Hill line handle loco hauled trains as a short-term stop-gap?

 

[Whistler40145]

Will this fire lead to the withdrawal of Class 172s to get the fleet checked over?

 

[Bungle965]

Will this fire lead to the withdrawal of Class 172s to get the fleet checked over?

Jesus, I bloody hope not that would be the last thing that LM would need, and the passengers!!
Sam

 

[birchesgreen]

Can the Snow Hill line handle loco hauled trains as a short-term stop-gap?

Well Chiltern already do

 

[Bletchleyite]

Will this fire lead to the withdrawal of Class 172s to get the fleet checked over?

I would imagine LM and Bombardier are probably doing everything possible to avoid that (and any more conflagrations). Bombardier, of course, would not want a loss of confidence in their products given the interest of Hitachi, CAF and Stadler in the UK market.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Can the Snow Hill line handle loco hauled trains as a short-term stop-gap?

Buses, more like.

 

[Sparks807Evo]

Yeah quite a few short formed services today - knew someone going through Snow Hill today and commented that they were informing the fact some services were reduced from 3 to 2 cars - however didn't seem to be too much of an issue in terms of crowding. Just a problem in the morning/evening peaks on weekdays. Hopefully these issues can be quickly resolved, as I'm sure they will be; they've been very good workhorses so far.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Can the Snow Hill line handle loco hauled trains as a short-term stop-gap?

Locomotive hauled services are route cleared over the line, as has been mentioned Chiltern run lots of locomotive hauled services on the track these 172s call home. You wouldn't want to put one one a local service though, the dwell times that come with slam doors would just kill the headways. The idea is a total non starter as far as I can see.

 

[bb21]

I wonder if this might see another of the 150's work in the West Midlands. They could swap ours on the Marston Vale for another 153 for a short while to cover any gaps

Do LM have any spare 153s? Won't that arrangement mean short-formed peak services on the Chase Line or the Worcester Line?

 

[Bungle965]

Do LM have any spare 153s? Won't that arrangement mean short-formed peak services on the Chase Line or the Worcester Line?

I have been on a few peak chase line services, and Lm barley get away with 3 cars on it. Quite a few times i have not even been able to get on the train at New Street because of the sheer volume of people.
Sam

 

[satisnek]

Yeah quite a few short formed services today - knew someone going through Snow Hill today and commented that they were informing the fact some services were reduced from 3 to 2 cars - however didn't seem to be too much of an issue in terms of crowding. Just a problem in the morning/evening peaks on weekdays. Hopefully these issues can be quickly resolved, as I'm sure they will be; they've been very good workhorses so far.

It's going to be a problem at weekends at this time of year as well with the German market in Birmingham. For some reason the entire population of Stourbridge goes to this. By train.

 

[sprinterguy]

Yeah quite a few short formed services today - knew someone going through Snow Hill today and commented that they were informing the fact some services were reduced from 3 to 2 cars - however didn't seem to be too much of an issue in terms of crowding. Just a problem in the morning/evening peaks on weekdays.

London Midland definitely feeling the pinch so far this week: 2 cars regularly replacing the typical 3 on Stratford trains, and after my usual morning train was cancelled yesterday the following one was reduced from 4 cars to 3, meaning there were only 3 carriages worth of capacity in place of essentially 7, going into Birmingham at that time in the morning peak.

I've been told that last Friday there were no less than five 3-car 172s unavailable for service.

 

[FordFocus]

Just as a thought, when these trains were first introduced, they were well known for having absolutely crackin' a/c. They were always arctic inside. Now, I guess the A/C wouldn't be on at the moment, but still, it makes me wonder about hot equipment to do with the air con system.

Would that be in about the same location?

The AC is controlled by two HVAC units fitted to the roof above each doorway plus a small one above the drivers cab.

Very unlikely unless it was alternator related as that's situated next to the engine. Oil burning in the turbo sounds more feasible.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Whatever the cause of the problem, why is is not screwing up LO amd CR units?

 

[FordFocus]

There are only 4 CR units and I think 8 LOROL units so it's less likely to happen than the larger fleet of LM units.

 

[Erniescooper]

Looking at the large amount of grey/white smoke coming from above the engine raft my money would be on fuel interfacing with a hot exhaust. When a turbo fails it's a darker smoke and most of the smoke comes straight from the exhaust as oil is dumped down it.

 

[Sparks807Evo]

Certainly sounding like a bad couple of weeks for LM - seems like the 172s are having a bout of technical issues just as it comes into one of the busiest times of the year, with as you say, the Christmas markets....

 

[BrumKev]

Judging by LM's twitter the last few days, it seems many tweeters irate about the lack of carriages on peak services, obviously so oblivious to what happened last week:roll:. So the last thing LM needed on wed was to terminate the 16:08 Dorridge to Kidderminster service at Snow Hill with an apparent fault. There's been these two fire incidents but there also seems to be quite a few 172s developing faults and as the last poster said its not a good time.

I would like to pay tribute to the train crew and emergency services of both the incident at Warwick Parkway and the one last week at Lapworth, both incidents dealt with well. Hope the investigation gets to the bottom of what caused both fires.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

What % of their 172s do they normally need in service?

 

[sprinterguy]

What % of their 172s do they normally need in service?

Eleven 172/2s (out of 12) and thirteen 172/3s (out of 15) in service daily.

 

[jimm]

Whatever the cause of the problem, why is is not screwing up LO amd CR units?

LM units probably have a rather more taxing existence than the others. They are expected to handle stoppers, mixed in with legs of fast running out to Worcester or Stratford and pulling up climbs like Old Hill bank and to Great Malvern.

Nothing like what LO and Chiltern's sets are asked to do, so extra wear and tear on certain components may be the result of various issues with the LM sets.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Here is 172 338 running as a 2 car unit as mentioned by someone earlier in the thread.