London Midland Overtime Ban

[SS4]

Robmac is probably a Troll. I think newcomers to the forum should be restricted in some way so we can be sure of who they really are.

To be honest I was suspicious of that, I just decided to give him the benefit of the doubt

 

[ainsworth74]

I think newcomers to the forum should be restricted in some way so we can be sure of who they really are.

Restricted how? And what do you mean who they really are? I have no idea who you are and I assume you know not all that much about me, why should I or you know anything about each other?

 

[notadriver]

Maybe their posts would have to be approved by a moderator first if they were new. Sometimes banned members create new accounts in order to 'Troll'. As for me if you want to know about me please ask. Would be more than happy to answer

 

[DarloRich]

no doubt a troll - but i dint know it was a strike - if anything it is a work to your contract! (I dont even think it classes as a work to rule!)

 

[robmac]

Weak service no, fragile service perhaps yet often it's out of London Midland's control - it just happens to be on their patch



That's your opinion, not fact. Plus of course pointless is the wrong word to use, would you prefer to not be told and wait at the station all afternoon? LM lose money when lines are shut, it would be pointless to close it without good reason.



So why hasn't it been? If it's as easy as you say it is then surely it would have been done a long time ago.



How would you feel if you were sacked for not working on your contracted day off? Not to mention it's illegal to do so.



Do you work for London Midland/Are you related to Thatcher? Your anti-union poison knows no bounds. For the record the poor are in the proverbial **** much more than the rich. By the look of your post you read the Daily Mail every morning, a "news"paper undeserving of the name even more than the Sun. I don't work for the railways so I don't know what qualifications are needed but I'm sure someone else can



The current climate cannot be used as an excuse for ideological cuts. In the second half of 2010 London Midland turned a profit link so there is no need to make such cuts beyond profiteering and ideology



Again, why should they work on a contracted day off without sufficient remuneration? LM could hire more staff with contracted weekends but they won't because they're fine with holding the public to ransom and running a "special timetable" in an attempt to avoid DfT intervention.




No they don't. What's more it's an ASLEF dispute, staff in other unions (such as RMT) are not partaking. It just happens a train can't go anywhere without a driver.



Where does it say it in their advertising material?



Increasing passenger numbers would disagree. Railways have been around for a long time, sure they could use an upgrade yet the disruption and economy rules it out.
Balanced people know full well that the Dispatches documentary on Monday (today is Friday, someone lucky enough to be in a job should be au fait with the days of the week)

The train is here to stay and if you choose not to use it I think they might just breathe a sigh of relief.

re: That's your opinion, not fact. Plus of course pointless is the wrong word to use, would you prefer to not be told and wait at the station all afternoon? LM lose money when lines are shut, it would be pointless to close it without good reason.

Nope, I would tend to disagree, it is fact. When asking a member of staff why the train i need to get is late the other day he said 'its because the one before it was, they are all late and its having a knock on effect'. Ok that explains the effect, but what about the ACTUAL cause as to WHY its late. That in my opinion is a pointless excuse and I have on many occasions had to endure times when I, along with all the other customers have had to sit, stand and be crushed onto platforms or in New Street not being told what is going on. Take Monday for example - no trains so take the bus...well the Bus doesnt go all the way to where I need to go.


re: Where does it say it in their advertising material?

I assumed that all posters displaying timetables and of course all printed pocket timetables were advertisng of a service - ie telling you information as to what trains go where and when so you can make your own choice as to what train to catch and to where - thats what advertising does, it informs potential buyers/users of what is avalaible. If for whatever reason this service is not provided then this is false advertising be it intentional or not. You do not, for example go a supermarket to buy your weekly shop only to go to the counter and then pay for your food but are only given 6/7ths of it because the person behind the counter does not want to serve and process all your shopping which essentially what is happening at the moment with the service that is provided between the Unions and LM
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

To be honest I was suspicious of that, I just decided to give him the benefit of the doubt

Not a Troll - a fustrated customer who has had to endure the warring between two parties who cannot resolve their differences and ruining my quality of life as a result
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And to back up another point I made about 40k a year for a job that can be automated out of existence, well the Docklands Light Railway is semi-automated and a lot of London commuters manages to get around with an Oyster Card without the need for ticket/inspectors or 'senior' conductors (why is there never any junior conductors) I would say my point is quite valid. I agree there will always be need for engineers, staff for maintaining quality and to assist customers at stations but really for sombody to stop at red lights when they are on and to push a stop/start button or to ask for tickets cannot be that taxing can it and could easily be phased out.

 

[CliveJones]

Nope, I would tend to disagree, it is fact. When asking a member of staff why the train i need to get is late the other day he said 'its because the one before it was, they are all late and its having a knock on effect'. Ok that explains the effect, but what about the ACTUAL cause as to WHY its late.

Did you not think to ask "Why are they all late. What happened?"

That in my opinion is a pointless excuse

Always makes me laugh when people say "excuse". Do you think we just make the trains late for lulz and then have to think up 'excuses'? Trains are always late for a reason. Otherwise they would not be late.

Now personally I don't think you got very good customer service then, because the staff should have explained a bit more without promoting, but in the even they don't you can always prompt.

Its possible of course that they don't know. The information sent out to staff is minimal (but improving) and not everyone knows how to get delay details from TRUST, (although obviously they should).

I assumed that all posters displaying timetables and of course all printed pocket timetables were advertisng of a service

It also states that things can be changed at short notice.

If for whatever reason this service is not provided then this is false advertising be it intentional or not.

False. See above.

but really for sombody to stop at red lights when they are on and to push a stop/start button or to ask for tickets cannot be that taxing can it and could easily be phased out.

Yes actually it can be that taxing. And although its not a problem for a computer, many people do not agree with you and would not be happy with a computer running a heavy rail passenger train. Even though in reality it would be safer. Planes too can be fully automated but are not for the same reason.

However, what you just said about driving a train is hogwash. They are NOT easy to handle at all which is why you need a very long time training.

 

[riordan]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: LM is free to start negotiations to reclassify sundays as a normal working day. aslef has indicated its favour for such a move repeatedly over a no. of yrs - if you could take your face out of the daily mail for a few minutes you'd see why LM is reluctant to do this by reading my earlier post.

in an ideal world contracted sunday working would leave train planning easier, a content staff and a guaranteed service (subject to engineering work), leaving you free to rip up the d.mail and enjoy something more intellectually stimulating on your journey.

 

[robmac]

Personally I wish everyone would be happy, both LM, the Unions guys and girls and us as customers but as somebody who esssentially get the brunt of the effects of what is going on I am sure you can understand the fustration of not getting the service I, along with a lot of other people have paid for. Negotiate away, squabble, quarrel and bash out a deal of some sort but for both sides realise that the third party who essentially you are serving us customers are loosing out and are getting very angry with you. The knock on effect is happening in 'real-time' too for example - 18:02 Longbridge to Lichfield City due 19:02 (http://www.journeycheck.com/londonmidland) only a hour delay - fantastic. Really I hope that you as service providers are really proud. I would hang my head in shame if the service my company provided, no matter whose fault it was was that poor.
This train will be cancelled. This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.

 

[GB]

If you think the majority of the national rail network can be automated in the same vein as the docklands you are mistaken....it just would not work on such a scale.

 

[Tringonometry]

Robmac,

I reckon I'm out of pocket by about £500 (net) as a result of this dispute. And counting. So that's the little holiday I had planned for my family over the Spring half-term up the Swanny.

The point being that it isn't just the customers who are getting it in the shorts.

PS You need to learn how to use the journeycheck website. There's no 1hr delay. The 'Due' time is when the train is due at its destination. It is cancelled, mind. I'll give you that!

 

[Flywaver]

HMMmmmm....As an XC Driver i did wonder why we now have a few ex LM Drivers....
Also these class172s dont look like they will be coming into service anytime soon as how are Drivers going to be released for training with an overtime ban...
Let alone the the gangway obscuring the view of wrong side signals...
plenty of issues that still drag on...

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Robmac is probably a Troll. I think newcomers to the forum should be restricted in some way so we can be sure of who they really are.

Does it matter who posts, what is important is free speech!!!!!

We have a situation here where people who want or need to travel by train can not do so.

As long as no one is being abusive to any individual, what's the problem?

 

[Tringonometry]

Also these class172s dont look like they will be coming into service anytime soon as how are Drivers going to be released for training with an overtime ban...

That's a major factor in the RDW ban. LM were of the opinion that a couple of days was sufficient training for guys coming from driving 150s.

Cheap, cheap, cheap!

 

[js47604]

it seems as though its six of one, half a dozen of the the other as to who are the most incompetent, self serving and pig-headed element to running the current situation between LM and the Unions. But I am one of the customers that this inept company and ancient union are inconveniencing week in and week out with your strikes and frankly weak service. Currently my wife and I are paying for a seven day rail pass we are presently getting only 6 days thanks to strikes and having to use the bus on numerous occasions because of engineering, power failures, lack of staff or 101 other lame and pointless excuses and quite frankly I am sick to death of having to pander to overpaid button pushers, inept managers and people who just don’t seem to care on a service that continually stops me getting to and from work..really 40k a year for a job that could be automated out of existence

If your union members don’t like working on Sundays - tough, I would just fire them and be done with it - people are crying out for jobs, no matter what they are, i am sure you could get very good enthusiastic staff for the current amount the drivers and guards are on. LM run a customer driven business and essentially they are shooting yourself in the foot by pandering to striking drivers, we as the general public have little to no sympathy to the cause we all both in the private and public sector are taking cuts, austerity measures and being thankful that we have jobs, really being a train driver or conductor requires little or no qualifications (apart it seems looking unkempt, rude and being able to read the Sun every morning) you should, like I am be thankful to have a job in the current climate and should be thankful that current Union members have a position and steady income as a lot of people are in not such a lucky position.

If Unions are complaining that your quite cushy well paid job package has not got that little extra perk here or there for working a weekend that sorry that’s tough, get with the times we live in a 24/7 world where people want to use services in the evening and (shock) on both Saturdays and Sundays. as I along with a lot of people have to work weekends for no extra pay as par of the course for the job we do and really if you are so upset with the franchise holders of the trains operation then they should quit.. I am sure that Nandos and McDonalds are currently recruiting.

You have signs around your station saying not to be rude to your staff, this I understand but if the reason why I cannot get home or too work is because of your staff being lazy, thoughtless and greedy they deserve all the abuse they get, I (in part) pay your wage and if I feel that you not providing the service you are advertising via posters, timetables and on your websites then I am entitled to complain, get compensation for loss of time and inconvenience on my part and to indeed take by business elsewhere.

I am sure that in a few years time Railways will be a thing of the past – something that misty eyed enthusiasts will look on as a golden age of transport but if like me, and of course the people making the Dispatches documentary last night will attain the railway and those who work for it are better off on the scrapheap of history, resigned to the fact that a service that charges through the nose for the oh so very poorest or service deserves to be put down and forgotten about.

Canwe sort this once and for all NOBODY IS ON STRIKE,they are just not working overtime,get your facts right

 

[Tom B]

It could be construed as strike action if you look at it in a certain light, no? If an employee works (say) every other Sunday, or whatever, and has done so continually for n years, could it not be regarded that the extra days have become part of their contract through "custom & practice"?

 

[Old Hill Bank]

What a mess!!!
We now have a situation where the passengers, guards, station staff etc. are all fed up with this stupidity!
Drivers are all above the 40% tax threshold with bonus payments etc.

Either they want overtime or they don't, time for them to stop taking the P***

 

[Tringonometry]

Drivers are all above the 40% tax threshold with bonus payments etc.

Round hairy objects. :roll::roll::roll:

Are you offering to send me the shortfall. Jolly decent of you!

Plenty of drivers are plenty fed up too, mate - the difference is that we're not rolling over and letting our T&Cs be taken away. Nor are we allowing new trains to be introduced without a reasonable amount of training.

 

[Greenback]

Either they want overtime or they don't, time for them to stop taking the P***

Maybe the majority don't want overtime? It was a necessity in order to get a living wage in the old days, but now that drivers in particular earn a much higher salalry, most might well prefer to have time off with their families.

 

[riordan]

What a mess!!!
We now have a situation where the passengers, guards, station staff etc. are all fed up with this stupidity!
Drivers are all above the 40% tax threshold with bonus payments etc.

Either they want overtime or they don't, time for them to stop taking the P***

absolute garbage. few LM drivers hit the upper tax threshold.

 

[Mike395]

Didnt know whether to put this here or in the Tours & Special Workings forum, but VT are running an extra service from Rugby to Euston in the early hours of tomorrow, calling at Northampton, MKC and Watford Junction. I cant remember the last time a VT service called at Northampton?

 

[matt]

I cant remember the last time a VT service called at Northampton?

There is a few services that do.

 

[TheBigD]

Didnt know whether to put this here or in the Tours & Special Workings forum, but VT are running an extra service from Rugby to Euston in the early hours of tomorrow, calling at Northampton, MKC and Watford Junction. I cant remember the last time a VT service called at Northampton?

There's a mon-fri Nothampton-Euston virgin service. About 0700 I think.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

absolute garbage. few LM drivers hit the upper tax threshold.

http://www.aslef.org.uk/information/102222/102225/105635/london_midland/

For avoidance of doubt look at this, don't forget to consider the "additions" thing of which ASLEF give no detail!!!

Most People would not want to overtime, which is the point I was making

 

[Tringonometry]

Didnt know whether to put this here or in the Tours & Special Workings forum, but VT are running an extra service from Rugby to Euston in the early hours of tomorrow, calling at Northampton, MKC and Watford Junction. I cant remember the last time a VT service called at Northampton?

They have a 10-car Voyager set that runs ECS to Euston, but they're opening up the front 5 and replacing the 0520 LM Rugby - Euston, albeit skipping a handful of stops.

#sneakybuggers :roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

For avoidance of doubt look at this, don't forget to consider the "additions" thing of which ASLEF give no detail!!!

What "additions" thing, OHB?

Is that another chunk of cash you need to send me? I reckon I'm about 7 grand short of paying 40% tax!

 

[Old Hill Bank]

What "additions" thing, OHB?

Is that another chunk of cash you need to send me? I reckon I'm about 7 grand short of paying 40% tax![/QUOTE]

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/rates/it.htm

Be careful what you put on your timesheet mate!!!!!!

 

[CliveJones]

http://www.aslef.org.uk/information/102222/102225/105635/london_midland/

For avoidance of doubt look at this, don't forget to consider the "additions" thing of which ASLEF give no detail!!!

That's not int he 40% band though. Not without overtime.

 

[Mojo]

One can earn £43,875 without paying any tax at the 40% rate for this financial year. This will be going down for the next financial year.

I don't know what the typical railway pension is, but one can earn quite a bit more than that also by taking into account their personal pension contributions. At my company for example I can earn up to £46,184.22 paying only 20% tax due to the pension.

Obviously bear in mind other incomes not just your salary!

 

[whoosh]

http://www.aslef.org.uk/information/102222/102225/105635/london_midland/

For avoidance of doubt look at this, don't forget to consider the "additions" thing of which ASLEF give no detail!!!

The 'Additions' is where any increases in a multi-year deal are detailed. So there won't be any details as they are at the end of their current deal.

Sometimes 'Additions' gives information on Driver Instructor pay, which is slightly higher than a driver.

That's it though, there would be no other additions unless you worked overtime.

 

[DarloRich]

More trains cancelled today - no bus replacements, little or no information. The bus seems to run to a timetable known only to the driver of the bus. People turn up at the station and wonder where the bus is. Is it any wonder that people get upset.

It is really not acceptable. This needs to be sorted out quickly. There are a lot of frustrated and un happy LM "customers". Strangely a lot of the frustration is towards the company and NOT the drivers. People don’t/cant understand why overtime is needed to run peak time service trains.

I wonder if Mr Hodgson (LM Chief Executive) will “get out on the ground" and see what his staff have to face? Doubt it somehow. Love to see him stood on the station platform dealing with irate customers! Explaining why his company can’t be bothered to run trains but still wants money for a train service from passengers! So the poor guards (when a train does show up) or ticket office staff gets the brunt of the unpleasantness.

The customer satisfaction survey will be interesting!

 

[Tringonometry]

I wonder if Mr Hodgson (LM Chief Executive) will “get out on the ground" and see what his staff have to face?

I guess you mean Mike Hodson, Managing Director.

Never seen him. More to the point, never seen a single communication with his name on it.

Am beginning to suspect that he doesn't exist and someone is trousering his salary and pension in some elaborate payroll fiddle!

Pah!