London Midland having staffing issues?

[Minilad]

If the train is as packed as she says then how exactly would a guard be able to do a ticket check?
Just another tory MP saying "something must be done" but not actually coming up with workable solutions.

 

[HowardGWR]

Good article here on Cannock Chase Member of Parliament Amanda Milling's website. Pretty scathing towards London Midland.

Cannock Chase MP - London Midland

Well, it doesn't cost her anything to be scathing does it, apart from getting up early one morning for her stunt.

What are her proposals for making available enough stock? Spending more taxpayer's money? No, I don't think she will propose that either.

 

[All Line Rover]

If the train is as packed as she says then how exactly would a guard be able to do a ticket check?

She commented that her return journey was on a quiet train and there was still no ticket check. Read the article properly.

The fact that London Midland's guards are lacklustre in checking tickets is not news, but it deserves to be highlighted.

 

[misterredmist]

This would seem to need urgent attention, may be the Rt.Hon for Cannock Chase should take the issue up with the DfT as well as LM before somebody gets badly hurt, as well as trying to protect the train revenues...

 

[trainophile]

It was an item on the Midlands news at lunchtime today. They are blaming two trains having gone on fire, people changing their routes due to the closure of Bromsgrove station, and... leaves on the line!

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Well, this week, London Midland have managed to run the full service on one whole day - Sunday!

Saturday - 1 down
Monday - 2 down
Tuesday - 2 down
Wednesday - 1 down
Thursday - 5 down and long delays
Friday - 3 down.

Some large gaps of up to 3.5 hours due to the existing 2 hour gap in the timetable after the evening peak. Can't say I would fancy waiting from 1750 to 2114 on a station which consists of an open fronted brick shelter! Perhaps they put taxis on for people.

 

[All Line Rover]

It's nothing short of a joke. They've cancelled at least 10 trains on the Liverpool to Birmingham route today, including the last departure of the day from Liverpool. They've also terminated the 20:13 Euston to Crewe service at Northampton.

All due to staff shortages, apparently. VTWC, on the other hand, have been running a perfect service throughout the day between both Liverpool and London, and Scotland and Birmingham.

It may be that London Midland has arranged onward road transportation for affected passengers (although given their incompetence at operating a railway it wouldn't surprise me if they couldn't organise a bus), but while onward road transportation may be all well and good for passengers waiting at the staffed and busy station of Northampton, no passenger would want to wait late at night at dark, empty stations such as Atherstone, Tamworth, Lichfield and Rugeley, for a bus that might never turn up. Thankfully I have the alternative of travelling by car, but many don't.

 

[387star]

Good article here on Cannock Chase Member of Parliament Amanda Milling's website. Pretty scathing towards London Midland.

Cannock Chase MP - London Midland

unbelievable that two car trains were ordered in the last ten years given the growth

 

[sd0733]

She commented that her return journey was on a quiet train and there was still no ticket check. Read the article properly.

The fact that London Midland's guards are lacklustre in checking tickets is not news, but it deserves to be highlighted.

To be fair though it doesn't say how many coaches the return journey was so it could have been 2x170 or a 170+153 so the front train definitely wouldn't see anyone.

By the way I'm not sticking up for some of my colleagues laziness, yes there are genuine reasons why we cant/don't go through in some situations with all sorts of things but unfortunately laziness is what it is in some cases and its doing none of us any favours long term!

With todays cancellations looking at what was cancelled seems like there were some Crewe conductors turns uncovered. 2 of those turns will have lead to 1C99 and 2K99 (last one down ex Euston and last Liverpool) being caped.

 

[All Line Rover]

...I'm not sticking up for some of my colleagues laziness, yes there are genuine reasons why we cant/don't go through in some situations with all sorts of things but unfortunately laziness is what it is in some cases and its doing none of us any favours long term!

Quite. I'm not suggesting that no London Midland guards are diligent, but enough aren't to make the lack of ticket inspections noticeable; in particular, when compared to VTWC or ATW, and the former manages it while operating very long trains.

 

[sd0733]

Quite. I'm not suggesting that no London Midland guards are diligent, but enough aren't to make the lack of ticket inspections noticeable; in particular, when compared to VTWC or ATW, and the former manages it while operating very long trains.

Quite agree with you, it makes life for those of us that do, far harder as passengers are used to not seeing anyone so expect to get away with no ticket/first class freebies/ feet on seats. Its incredibly frustrating and to be honest comes down to weak managment as it should have been nipped in the bud years ago, probably goes back well into Central/silverlink days I guess. Don't get me wrong I see and work with some great guards, but also some proper lazy individuals who wouldn't last 5 minutes elsewhere to be honest and give the whole grade a bad name.

 

[the sniper]

Good to see that the MP has picked up on the lack of ticket inspections by London Midland's guards.

Shame she didn't make more of the conduct of the Amazon lot, if the Guard had bravely attempted to do tickets she would have seen worse for sure... Not that they could have got through that train luckily! That lot have physically assaulted both male and female Guards doing tickets at that time of day, plus the Revenue Protection Managers, even when working in gangs. Almost all the Amazon lot travel to/from Witton and Perry Barr, usually changing at Tame Bridge. The evening shift change over train is even worse, as additionally you get the usual feral youth that travel between various stations between Bloxwich and Rugeley mixed in.

At least it looks like Amazon are now being punished for having such low standards when it comes to recruitment. A fire on the packing floor at their Rugeley warehouse is "believed to have been started deliberately"... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-37966786

Quite. I'm not suggesting that no London Midland guards are diligent, but enough aren't to make the lack of ticket inspections noticeable; in particular, when compared to VTWC or ATW, and the former manages it while operating very long trains.

Hardly a fair comparison! VTWC having 20+ minutes between stops, BTP presence at many places they call at with a largely decent clientèle (how often do VT TMs check tickets in standard between WVH and COV?), compared to many LM Guards having a couple of minutes to argue with the unemployed, the homeless, the druggies, yobbos and mentally unstable 'only going one stop' who frequent the West Mids suburban network. These types know they're untouchable and face absolutely no consequences for not buying a ticket or for kicking off. Sometimes these types outnumber normal fare paying passengers on quieter services!

LM Guards have it drummed into them to avoid two things, conflict and delays. What do you think is the best, possibly only way, to try and avoid these...?

 

[Kettledrum]

It's not the first time London Midland have had to cancel trains due to staff shortages is it?

How does this affect them when it comes to franchise penalties?

How will it be considered when it comes to franchise renewal?

Surely there have to be consequences and deterrents from a TOC getting themselves into this position (again!)

 

[ChrisHogan]

unbelievable that two car trains were ordered in the last ten years given the growth

The two-car 170s were actually ordered in 1997 and 1998 by CT, not by London Midland. All 33 170s were additional resource and cost to the bid National Express put in for the franchise. I think the only trains released were the 4 Class 312s.
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It's not the first time London Midland have had to cancel trains due to staff shortages is it?

How does this affect them when it comes to franchise penalties?

How will it be considered when it comes to franchise renewal?

Surely there have to be consequences and deterrents from a TOC getting themselves into this position (again!)

The initial staff shortages were a consequence of the DfT's remapping of the CT, XC and Silverlink franchises.

Franchise penalities are covered by Schedule 7 of the Direct-Award Agreement; if cancellations are above the benchmark then the payment is to the DfT. There is a breach figure of about 0.84% and a default figure of about 0.88% of trains run (exact figures varies by period). Network Rail only publishes a Cancellations & Significant Lateness figure for each TOC - that for LM in period 8 just ended was 3.2% against a national average of 4.2% (skewed admittedly by GTR). LM doesn't appear to have got to the breach position with cancellations so the only "consequences" will be a payment to the DfT.

Most of the train-crew cancellations appear to be concentrated at weekends suggesting to me that the links have too many long weekends and probably too few weekend spares.

Technically LM doesn't survive beyond the current franchise so franchise renewal isn't an issue. The new West Midlands franchise is formed of two business units and could well be quite a different TOC from LM. However it isn't much of a competition with only Abellio and Govia remaining in the running. You can't see Govia winning the WM franchise unless its dispute with the RMT over Southern DOO has been resolved. What will be significant is the December 2021 service specification for the 'West Midlands local and regional business unit' requires a Saturday level of service from 10 am on Sundays and you can't see a voluntary Sunday arrangement providing the necessary amount of train crew. Maybe the two bidders will look to have specific weekend part-time staff on 27-hour contracts working Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays, leaving the existing workforce to work Mondays to Thursdays?

 

[All Line Rover]

More cancellations today on various routes, such as Liverpool to Birmingham, Crewe to London (Trent Valley), Lichfield to Birmingham, Birmingham to Northampton, and Northampton to London.

It's little wonder that Virgin has stopped accepting London Midland's Trent Valley passengers (other than those holding "Any Permitted" tickets) when there is a cancellation due to a "staff shortage", given the frequency with which these occur and the price differential between the typical ticket held by a VTWC passenger and a typical ticket held by a LM Trent Valley passenger.
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Hardly a fair comparison! VTWC having 20+ minutes between stops, BTP presence at many places they call at with a largely decent clientèle (how often do VT TMs check tickets in standard between WVH and COV?), compared to many LM Guards having a couple of minutes to argue with the unemployed, the homeless, the druggies, yobbos and mentally unstable 'only going one stop' who frequent the West Mids suburban network. These types know they're untouchable and face absolutely no consequences for not buying a ticket or for kicking off. Sometimes these types outnumber normal fare paying passengers on quieter services!

LM Guards have it drummed into them to avoid two things, conflict and delays. What do you think is the best, possibly only way, to try and avoid these...?

I have in mind the absence of any ticket check - particularly in first class - on a 4 car 350 for an entire journey from Birmingham to Liverpool or Crewe to London (and it would not be difficult to do a quick ticket check in first class after almost every stop). As for trains on routes, or at times of day, where troublesome passengers are a regular occurrence, it is London Midland's responsibility to supply suitable RPIs and security, and its failure to do so is a legitimate point of criticism.

 

[londonmidland]

It's pretty bad right now at Birmingham New Street with the usual congestion and plus LM unavailability.

 

[Rich McLean]

It's an open secret that LM have cut manpower to the bone and rely on rest day working to cover diagrams.

 

[the sniper]

I have in mind the absence of any ticket check - particularly in first class - on a 4 car 350 for an entire journey from Birmingham to Liverpool or Crewe to London (and it would not be difficult to do a quick ticket check in first class after almost every stop). As for trains on routes, or at times of day, where troublesome passengers are a regular occurrence, it is London Midland's responsibility to supply suitable RPIs and security, and its failure to do so is a legitimate point of criticism.

Ah, gotcha! That's a fair point.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It's an open secret that LM have cut manpower to the bone and rely on rest day working to cover diagrams.

It's been like this for years, thelate evening trains out if Euston were regularly getting canned three years ago when I moved to Hemel. It's the GoVia way.

 

[Kite159]

At a guess around a third of the Liverpool services have been cancelled today resulting in some pretty hairy overcrowding.

18:04 left Full, with 50+ passengers left behind. The 19:34 looked wedged out (with the 19:48 VT quite busy as a result)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is it past their skill level to get some doubled up?


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[6Gman]

Is it past their skill level to get some doubled up?


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Doubling up what?

If you mean units then there are platform length issues at Winsford, Acton Bridge, South Parkway ...

 

[Kite159]

Doubling up what?

If you mean units then there are platform length issues at Winsford, Acton Bridge, South Parkway ...

Unit deselect at those stations?

 

[the sniper]

Unit deselect at those stations?

Possible but a recipe for a bit of a nightmare... Train full of passengers on a Saturday, a good number unfamiliar with the railway let alone carriages getting deselected, many can be p*ssed up, many with luggage/push chairs/shopping, being expected to walk the length of a 350 to ensure they can get out. If any of the carriages in the back set are rammed full you're going to have people in the rear unable to walk through... Having worked double set 170s on a Saturday night I've seen SDO be virtually unworkable sensibly, let alone UDS!

Platform 4C at Birmingham New Street is also a reason you don't see many (or virtually any) double set 350s on Liverpools, as 4C obviously can't take them so they have to sit in a through platform instead.

 

[trainophile]

At a guess around a third of the Liverpool services have been cancelled today resulting in some pretty hairy overcrowding.

18:04 left Full, with 50+ passengers left behind. The 19:34 looked wedged out (with the 19:48 VT quite busy as a result)

If there was literally no room to board the LM train, would "LM only" Advance tickets be accepted on the following VT?

 

[All Line Rover]

As far as journeys to/from London are concerned, no.

I don't know if arrangements differ for passengers travelling shorter distances where LM and VTWC fares are comparable.

 

[sd0733]

Unit deselect at those stations?

Yes it's doable but an utter nightmare. I had it ages ago on the 22:04.as an 8 full and standing, can't get out the middle cab far enough to tell anybody, don't listen to announcements, 2 units which look exactly the same. I never found any that were overcarried but the dwell time at stations was ridiculous. It really isn't a practical solution to be honest on the pi**head specials. But something needs to be done they can't carry on as they are. They are so full of scumbags all day now at weekends that everyone puts in for annual leave etc and if anyone gets a Liverpool rest day you just throw it in. The new diagrams/link will be out next week and can guarantee that loads will book off certain shifts as soon as they know they're on certain jobs. This is why the ratio of Liverpool's cancelled to anything else seems way way higher, The route is decimated on a Saturday recently week after week.
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If there was literally no room to board the LM train, would "LM only" Advance tickets be accepted on the following VT?

Would depend if ticket acceptance with Virgin was agreed really. Seen a couple of weeks recently with CSL2/ticket acceptance between Liverpool and crewe due to shortage of crews