London Midland and ASLEF settle dispute (finally!)

[junglejames]

Agreed.

The Unions were always going to argue that one set of staff should have more holidays and the other set of staff should have a higher salary. Any TOC will struggle in those circumstances, because they can't just pay everyone "the best of both worlds".

This affair has made me think again about potential future franchise redraws - e.g. if TPE was merged into Northern then will the Union(s) find differences in salaries/ terms/ conditions and argue that the lower ones be brought into line with the higher ones?

Ultimately, all of this has to be paid from somewhere

Very true.
It wouldnt be so much of a problem if it was just wages. In that case, its probably only fair that wages are all brought in line, and its only going to be half the drivers you end up giving extra money to, but when you have other things like leave etc, then it makes things more complicated and more expensive. With this situation (and possibly with others in the future if franchises are redrawn), you have every driver after something better. That isnt cheap.

 

[Greenback]

The problem has arisen through the fragmentation of the railways. Each company has been able to do its own thing with negotiations, the result of which is that we have a wide set of terms and conditions across the TOC's. In itself this isn't a problem until the franchises are redrawn.

 

[Tringonometry]

Lots of happy drivers at Bletchley and Northampton at the mo!

Glad it's all over. It was getting old fast.

Looking forward to getting the service back up to normal levels soon.

 

[Whistler40145]

From a passengers point of view, does LM & other TOCs just keep their fingers crossed that sufficient Drivers volunteer to work Sundays?

If this is the case, isn't it a bit of an archaic system?

Why isn't there a pool of Part Time Drivers who can work on Sundays?

 

[SS4]

From a passengers point of view, does LM & other TOCs just keep their fingers crossed that sufficient Drivers volunteer to work Sundays?

If this is the case, isn't it a bit of an archaic system?

Why isn't there a pool of Part Time Drivers who can work on Sundays?

I suspect the cost of training would be prohibitive.

As for the dispute I guess it was a tricky one, you'd have some drivers who prefer extra pay and some who would prefer holiday. I, for example, would prefer holiday (but then I'm not a driver xD)

 

[FGWman]

There are 4 different flavours of Sunday working on the railway.

1. Inside the working week (35 Hours) AKAIK only East Coast and Eurostar do this

2. Inside the working week (more than 35hours) For example I believe SWT work a 40 hour week with sundays inside

3. Sundays as overtime but you are committed to working your booked Sunday if no volunteer can be found to work it. Yes I know its overtime but if that is the contract you sign then contracually you have to work them.

4. Sundays as overtime but it is totally voluntary.

I believe Arriva Trains Wales drivers have just agreed to move from option 4 to option 3 as part of their recent deal.

To be honest Sunday working was basically option 3 under BR. A couple of times groups of staff tried to go not available but the management called in the lawyers. We were told if it was you custom and practice to work your booked Sunday then that is what you has to do. That was in a letter from my union telling me I had to work my booked sunday if that is what I usually did.

Unfortunatly when all the TOC were created some weak managment allowed staff to get away with all going NA. For example the first time Midland Main line drivers did so was on a Sunday when apparantly they had a union meeting. The company made no effort to stop them doing so and a result from then on the drivers were able not to work any Sunday they did not want to as management had allowed custom and practice to change.

 

[Whistler40145]

Thanks

 

[tbtc]

The problem has arisen through the fragmentation of the railways. Each company has been able to do its own thing with negotiations, the result of which is that we have a wide set of terms and conditions across the TOC's. In itself this isn't a problem until the franchises are redrawn.

Presumably BR had different grades of staff/ pay/conditions too? But as the "boundaries" didn't shift around, it wasn't an issue to have these, they only become a problem (as you say) when the map gets changed.

 

[Whistler40145]

BR was more like a bucket with a hole in the bottom!

 

[DarloRich]

still cancelled trains today! :roll:

 

[Tringonometry]

still cancelled trains today!

Of course there are. Drivers don't just pitch up to work in case there are trains to be driven. All work is diagrammed and jobs assigned at least 48 hours ahead.

It will be sorted for Monday, and the last time I looked the majority of Bletchley jobs for this Sunday were covered too.

 

[DarloRich]

Sorry trig - was meant to be a funny - missed the smiley off - Have edited now!

 

[Pumbaa]

There are 4 different flavours of Sunday working on the railway.

1. Inside the working week (35 Hours) AKAIK only East Coast and Eurostar do this

2. Inside the working week (more than 35hours) For example I believe SWT work a 40 hour week with sundays inside

fTPE also have Sunday inside the working week.

Glad this is sorted, both sides dragged heels for a time. It will be interesting to see if drivers have pushed for maximum deals on both issues at the expense of fellow colleagues. Can't imagine they'll be terribly well received if changes have to be made to fund the final deal.

So back to the usual shocking level of service then from LM. Fantastic.

 

[Greenback]

Presumably BR had different grades of staff/ pay/conditions too? But as the "boundaries" didn't shift around, it wasn't an issue to have these, they only become a problem (as you say) when the map gets changed.

Yes, they did. But there was a national pay framework for each grade of staff. There were regional difference, with the payment sof L&Se allowances, varying depending on location, but if you were, for instance, platform staff, your basic pay, hours, and leave were the same from Inverness to Penzance.

AIUI, the drivers pay structure was byzantine and complicated, with mileage payments, shift allowances and all sorts of other supplements to add on as well. This meant that the average earnings could vary depot by depot, but annual leave and hours would still be the same.

Privatisation has at least cleaned up some of the archaic payments. Even when I worked, there were still several allowances (incl L&SE) on my pay slip in addition to O/T and basic. I believe that now most of the allowances have been absorbed into basic pay. Hence basic pay appears to be much higher, yet the net pay probably isn't for most grades!

 

[Whistler40145]

From the view of a passenger & basher, does it ever occur that insufficient Drivers volunteer to work Sundays?

If yes, does the TOC have to operate a bus instead?

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

There is usually a few that volunteer, but in LM's case it wasn't too many - they didn't usually run bus services, they instead cancelled the service hours instead and published this new timetable on their website.

 

[Whistler40145]

Thanks