London - Hatfield - Old Street

[Stargull]

Hi

I have some complicated London travel coming up and wanted to check I wasn't missing anything.

I want to go from Paddington to Hatfield on a weekday around 3pm, then return to Old Street around 7. I'll then do two zone 1 tube journeys that evening.

I think the cheapest way to do this is to use contactless for Paddington - Finsbury Park, and the later tubes. Then I can buy an Old Street to Hatfield return with my network railcard and start short from Finsbury Park.

Or is there some sort of travelcard combination that would be more helpful? I always feel I must be missing something when I do this sort of day.

(For bonus credit, please note I'm travelling in from Oxford to Paddington, but I already hold a ticket for this journey, which is actually an unused Hampton Court - Oxford off-peak return).

All help from experts gratefully received.

 

[hotelmode]

Travelcard and Boundary zone 6 to Hatfield return?

 

[drueberflug]

I think the cheapest way to do this is to use contactless for Paddington - Finsbury Park, and the later tubes. Then I can buy an Old Street to Hatfield return with my network railcard and start short from Finsbury Park.

You may want to consider a London Underground Zone 1 to Hatfield Off-Peak Day Return for £15.10 (with Network Railcard) when considering that this would cost you £4 more than the Old Street to Hatfield return ticket and allow you to take the Tube when returning as well, while your Z1-Z1 tube fares would be £3.50 (TfL peak)/£2.90 (TfL off-peak) per journey.

If you will be travelling just a single bit more, do consider an Off-Peak Day Travelcard for £11.00 and an Off-Peak Day Return (Boundary Zone 6 to Hatfield) for £4.75 (both with Network Railcard).

 

[Stargull]

Travelcard and Boundary zone 6 to Hatfield return?

I think this is cheaper because of the extra tube journeys. Thank you

You may want to consider a London Underground Zone 1 to Hatfield Off-Peak Day Return for £15.10 (with Network Railcard) when considering that this would cost you £4 more than the Old Street to Hatfield return ticket and allow you to take the Tube when returning as well, while your Z1-Z1 tube fares would be £3.50 (TfL peak)/£2.90 (TfL off-peak) per journey.

If you will be travelling just a single bit more, do consider an Off-Peak Day Travelcard for £11.00 and an Off-Peak Day Return (Boundary Zone 6 to Hatfield) for £4.75 (both with Network Railcard).

Thank you. How do I get a Network railcard discount on the travelcard?

(The weekday minimum fare of £13 presumably applies too)

 

[redreni]

The Travelcard plus BZ6 day return option is not compatible with the Network Railcard because of the minimum fare. The Travelcard would cost £13 and the BZ6 to Hatfield would be full price (£7.20). The Zone 1 to Hatfield return is the better option, with Oyster or Contactless for the final zone 1 tube journey.

The Old St to Hatfield return is not a bad option either, albeit that ticket would cost £13 due to the minimum fare. The fact you'd be making three zone 1 tube journeys means the Zone 1 o Hatfield return (which covers two of those 3 journeys provided the second one starts at Old St) would be the best option.

Unless, perhaps, you want to break your journey at Old St before making your second zone 1 tube journey? I don't think the layout permits that as, from memory, it's an in-station interchange between National Rail and the Underground, so if you exit there then the return portion of your zone 1 to Hatfield ticket has no more validity.

 

[drueberflug]

I think this is cheaper because of the extra tube journeys. Thank you



Thank you. How do I get a Network railcard discount on the travelcard?

(The weekday minimum fare of £13 presumably applies too)

Oh, right, yeah, forgot that the Network Railcard has that minimal fare on weekdays...
In that case, it'd be £13 for your Travelcard, and, well, the extension ticket should better not be railcard-discounted then (£7.20).

The discounted Travelcard can be bought on Avanti's webshop.
(just looked up an Open Return journey from Paddington to Old Street, for 1 adult with a Network Railcard)


Unfortunately, this would make this option more expensive than the others, though this at least offers unlimited travel in London.

 

[Stargull]

Thanks - I think the fact is covers my two extra evening tubes makes it the best option.

 

[Hadders]

I’ve not checked but contactless throughout should cost no more than £23.50 as this is the daily off-peak cap from Hatfield.

 

[Stargull]

I’ve not checked but contactless throughout should cost no more than £23.50 as this is the daily off-peak cap from Hatfield.

Is there no afternoon peak for travelling back from Hatfield? I'd assumed there was...

 

[Hadders]

Where peak single fares get charged in the evening, they count towards the off peak cap.

 

[Stargull]

Where peak single fares get charged in the evening, they count towards the off peak cap.

Ah! I hadn't realised that. Thanks, that's a useful thought as it means the low-effort version is just a couple of quid more than the other cheapest way.

 

[MikeWh]

while your Z1-Z1 tube fares would be £3.50 (TfL peak)/£2.90 (TfL off-peak) per journey.

Not extremely important if a cap is going to be reached, but z1-z1 is zone 1 only which is £2.90 peak, £2.80 off-peak.

 

[redreni]

By my maths the Z1 only daily cap £8.90) plus the Old St to Hatfield off-peak day return (£13) is £21.90, so cheaper than the Z1-6 to Hatfield daily cap of £23.50.

There may for all I know be a combination of daily caps and single fares that comes in a bit cheaper than £23.50, though. The single fares zone 3 (e.g. Harringay) to Hatfield and back are £5.60 each way, so if the system were to charge the Z1-2 daily cap plus a zone 3 to Hatfield single in each direction by way of an extension fare, that would come to £8.90 + £5.60 + £5.60 = £20.10.

Extension fares seem to me rather mysterious, though. I would probably use Contactless in Z1-2 and a paper day return ticket Old St to Hatfield, myself. Not that there's much to lose by using Contactless given the published Z1-6 to Hatfield daily cap is only slightly more than the Z1-2 cap plus the return ticket. Do let us know what you're charged if you do decide to use Contactless for everything!

Edit: If you wanted to be a little more adventurous, you could for £13.45 get a Network Railcard-discounted off-peak day return from Acton Main Line to Hatfield and attempt to start short on the Elizabeth Line at Paddington. This may not go down well, however, as staff may interpret the 16.4 NRCoT as not permitting break of journey at Paddington (though, in truth, I think it's intended to proscribe break of journey at stations between Paddington and Stratford and between Paddington and Abbey Wood, rather than at any of those stations, but the wording isn't clear). If they don't like it then they should sell you an excess fare (NRCoT 16.4) - if they can't sell you an excess fare then you'd have a very strong argument that they should let you through, or that you should be refunded any additional Contactless fare you may be charged. Assuming you are allowed to begin your journey at Paddington Elizabeth Line you'd have no further trouble and it would cover all your intended travel except those last two zone 1 tube journeys, so you'd pay £13.40 + £2.80 + £2.80 = £19.

 

[Hadders]

Using contactless:
Paddington to Hatfield £11.20
Hatfield to Old Street £8.40
2x Zone 1 tube journeys £5.60
Total £25.20 which will cap at £23.50


Using your Network Railcard:
Zone U12 London to Hatfield Off Peak Day Return with Network Railcard £15.10
2x Zone 1 contactless tube journeys £5.60
Total £20.50

But:
The return portion of a Zone U12 to Hatfield ticket is valid for one journey from Hatfield to an appropriate interchange station and then one single tube journey to a station in Zone 1 or 2. Old Street is a London Terminal and an appropriate interchange station.

If @Stargull was going to Kings Cross rather than Old Street there would be absolutely no doubt that they could leave the National Rail station, spend as long as they wanted before taking their underground journey from Kings Cross St Pancras Underground station. Now back to Old Street, there is no reaso nwhy the same principle doesn't apply - the 'National Rail' part of the journey finishes at Old Street with the Undergound portion being taken later. The problam is National Rail and the Underground share a common gateline so I don't know exactly what would happen to the ticket if @Stargull exited and then used the same ticket to re-enter later. It's likely that the ticket would be retained upon exit.

Also worth noting that @Stargull will presumably have a cross-London interchange available on the return portion of the Hampton Court to Oxford ticket. The underground validity on this ticket is only valid on an appropriate route between the relevent London Terminals but it may well be that one of the two later underground journeys fits.

So it is possible that the only ticket needed is a Zone U12 to Hatfield ticket.

 

[redreni]

Thinking about it, the Acton Main Line to Hatfield ticket has a Maltese Cross so, realistically, it's just going to be accepted at the LU or Elizabeth Line gatelines at Paddington just as a ticket from much further afield would be, to begin a cross-London transfer. So that's looking like a pretty good option, especially in light of @Hadders ' advice about the potential for a cross-London ticket to cover one of the two Zone 1 tube journeys you wish to make in the evening (depending if they'd let you break and resume at Old St and subject, I suppose, to heading vaguely westwards on a plausible route in the general direction of a suitable interchange that would get you to Acton Main Line).

 

[Hadders]

Thinking about it, the Acton Main Line to Hatfield ticket has a Maltese Cross so, realistically, it's just going to be accepted at the LU or Elizabeth Line gatelines at Paddington just as a ticket from much further afield would be, to begin a cross-London transfer. So that's looking like a pretty good option, especially in light of @Hadders ' advice about the potential for a cross-London ticket to cover one of the two Zone 1 tube journeys you wish to make in the evening (depending if they'd let you break and resume at Old St and subject, I suppose, to heading vaguely westwards on a plausible route in the general direction of a suitable interchange that would get you to Acton Main Line).

Where does Acton Mainline come in to it? As I understand it the OP is using the return portion of a Hampton Court to Oxford ticket so the cross London transfer would be from Paddington to Waterloo/Vauxhall/Victoria etc.

 

[Stargull]

Edit: If you wanted to be a little more adventurous, you could for £13.45 get a Network Railcard-discounted off-peak day return from Acton Main Line to Hatfield and attempt to start short on the Elizabeth Line at Paddington.

Thanks for this suggestion. Why would a Hatfield to Acton Main Line return be valid via Old Street? That seems like a bizarre routing.

 

[Hadders]

Where does Acton Mainline come in to it? As I understand it the OP is using the return portion of a Hampton Court to Oxford ticket so the cross London transfer would be from Paddington to Waterloo/Vauxhall/Victoria etc.

Apologies, just seen the suggestion about AML.

Thanks for this suggestion. Why would a Hatfield to Acton Main Line return be valid via Old Street? That seems like a bizarre routing.

There are direct trains from Old Street to Hatfield, there’s no requirement to take the fastest route. Perfectly valid.

 

[Stargull]

Apologies, just seen the suggestion about AML.


There are direct trains from Old Street to Hatfield, there’s no requirement to take the fastest route. Perfectly valid.

Thank you. And just be to sure, this is true even if I don't take the direct train, but change at Finsbury Park, right? It's the existence of the direct route that matters?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jan 2026 ==

If you wanted to be a little more adventurous, you could for £13.45 get a Network Railcard-discounted off-peak day return from Acton Main Line to Hatfield and attempt to start short on the Elizabeth Line at Paddington.

Sorry, one more question: This means i'd have to observe the afternoon peak at Hatfield, right? So no trains departing after 1600 and before 19.00?

 

[Hadders]

Thank you. And just be to sure, this is true even if I don't take the direct train, but change at Finsbury Park, right? It's the existence of the direct route that matters?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jan 2026 ==



Sorry, one more question: This means i'd have to observe the afternoon peak at Hatfield, right? So no trains departing after 1600 and before 19.00?

Acton Mainline to Hatfield is valid via Paddington, Old Street and Finsbury Park. The Routeing Guide determines validity but we don’t need to go into that level of detail here.

Acton Mainline to Hatfield off peak day return is not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:29 and before 09:30 or after 16:00 and before 19:00.

 

[redreni]

Thank you. And just be to sure, this is true even if I don't take the direct train, but change at Finsbury Park, right? It's the existence of the direct route that matters?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jan 2026 ==



Sorry, one more question: This means i'd have to observe the afternoon peak at Hatfield, right? So no trains departing after 1600 and before 19.00?

Ah, yes, that is a drawback of that ticket. I'm sure at one time that evening peak restriction was only for departing Paddington, but as you say, now it's for departing anywhere at all, which is restrictive given your plans.

Probably not the best idea after all, then!

These Ovalised fares are a bit of a con, aren't they? The argument is people aren't being diddled out of their Railcard discount because discountable paper tickets are available, but then you can't use them at times where you could - if you forego your Railcard discount - travel on Contactless and benefit from much lower peak fares and off-peak capping. And despite single leg pricing, you can't even avail of the Railcard discount on the outbound leg only (undertaken at lunchtime) because of the minimum fare.

It must be said the only consequence if you did happen to travel before 7pm on the Hatfield to Old St leg should be a £5 excess to the Anytime, which doesn't necessarily have to be paid before boarding, so the jeopardy isn't huge.

 

[Haywain]

which doesn't necessarily have to be paid before boarding,

It does it you can’t get through a barrier at Hatfield.

 

[Stargull]

Using your Network Railcard:
Zone U12 London to Hatfield Off Peak Day Return with Network Railcard £15.10
2x Zone 1 contactless tube journeys £5.60
Total £20.50

I thought this might open a can of worms, but I didn't quite expect this many invertebrates.

That said: This ticket (Zone U12 to Hatfield) *doesn't* appear to have afternoon off-peak restrictions, at least as far as I can see on Avanti's ticket site? Is that right?

(It is 50/50 whether I will get a train before 7 from Hatfield, but I'd like the option).

 

[Hadders]

I thought this might open a can of worms, but I didn't quite expect this many invertebrates.

That said: This ticket (Zone U12 to Hatfield) *doesn't* appear to have afternoon off-peak restrictions, at least as far as I can see on Avanti's ticket site? Is that right?

(It is 50/50 whether I will get a train before 7 from Hatfield, but I'd like the option).

Zone U12 to Hatfield has no evening restrictions on either portion.

 

[rmHawk765]

Thank you. And just be to sure, this is true even if I don't take the direct train, but change at Finsbury Park, right? It's the existence of the direct route that matters?

There are no fare gates separating any platforms at Finsbury so I would imagine it does not matter whether you take NR or the tube. The direct train in question would be a Moorgate train stopping at all stations, so you'd probably prefer a faster service to Finsbury to save time.

 

[redreni]

I thought this might open a can of worms, but I didn't quite expect this many invertebrates.

At one time or another all the ticket types that have cropped up on this thread - cross-London through tickets, PAYG, Ovalised single leg-priced paper tickets - have all been introduced partly to make ticketing easier and less complicated. The fact you have to consider them *all* if you want to pay the right fare doesn't seem to stop the industry dreaming up still further layers of complexity in the name of simplification...

 

[Stargull]

If @Stargull was going to Kings Cross rather than Old Street there would be absolutely no doubt that they could leave the National Rail station, spend as long as they wanted before taking their underground journey from Kings Cross St Pancras Underground station. Now back to Old Street, there is no reaso nwhy the same principle doesn't apply - the 'National Rail' part of the journey finishes at Old Street with the Undergound portion being taken later. The problam is National Rail and the Underground share a common gateline so I don't know exactly what would happen to the ticket if @Stargull exited and then used the same ticket to re-enter later. It's likely that the ticket would be retained upon exit.

Just a note to say the ticket was returned at the Old Street gate line, so I think reuse would have been possible: my plans altered so I didn't get to test it, but looks like the barriers did the right thing here.

 

[Hadders]

Just a note to say the ticket was returned at the Old Street gate line, so I think reuse would have been possible: my plans altered so I didn't get to test it, but looks like the barriers did the right thing here.

Thanks for the update, good to know the ticket wasn't retained by the gateline.