London Buses Discussion

[Deerfold]

Is rerouting the 211 to Battersea Power station any good

Any good for what?

 

[TWBG]

Is rerouting the 211 to Battersea Power station a good idea?

It really isn’t a good idea because a large section of the route is truncated which cuts off Waterloo and there’s just about nothing to put in it’s place

 

[Deerfold]

Is rerouting the 211 to Battersea Power station a good idea?

Hasn't the idea been dropped?

 

[JonathanH]

Everything being refurbished. Plain grey, similar to First.

Thanks. That is a really bad sign if the operators have got their way on fitting utilitarian seat coverings. Having now seen various videos, it looks absolutely awful and a real disappointment.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Is rerouting the 211 to Battersea Power station a good idea?

From what point in its route? Via where?

 

[Edsmith]

It really isn’t a good idea because a large section of the route is truncated which cuts off Waterloo and there’s just about nothing to put in it’s place

The 11 has been rerouted to Waterloo.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Nov 2023 ==

Hasn't the idea been dropped?

Postponed as far as I'm aware because the stand at Battersea Power Station hasn't been completed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Nov 2023 ==

Is rerouting the 211 to Battersea Power station a good idea?

Time will tell, Battersea Power Station does seem to be very popular since it opened

 

[MasterSpenny]

Abellio has ordered 80 electric buses from Wrightbus. This consists of:

1. 24 Wrightbus GB Kites
2. 56 Wrightbus Electroliners

Sidenote: the plate of 1702 is LV73FGX, as shown in article (image has not been quoted to avoid copyright)

Abellio London orders 80 more Wrightbus battery-electrics - routeone

Abellio London has ordered 80 battery-electric buses from Wrightbus: 24 GB Kite Electroliners and 56 StreetDeck Electroliners.

www.route-one.net

Abellio London orders 80 more Wrightbus battery-electrics​

Abellio London has ordered 80 further battery-electric buses from Wrightbus. The deal is made up of 24 GB Kite Electroliner single-deckers and 56 StreetDeck Electroliner double-deckers and they will enter service in 2024.

The GB Kite Electroliners, at least, will include a revised frontal aspect as part of what the manufacturer describes as “a number of safety features” to make them compliant with the Transport for London (TfL) Bus Safety Standard.

Other elements of the safety work are front and nearside blind spot warnings, tyre pressure monitoring, an automated emergency braking system, and what is termed a “dynamic safety test.”

When the latest tranche of StreetDeck Electroliners completes delivery, Abellio London will have over 100 of the type.

All of the 80 buses ordered will be equipped with high-backed Lazzerini seats that incorporate USB charging points and mobile phone holders. Priority positions are in a contrasting colour and Wrightbus says that the wheelchair user and buggy area has been enlarged. Wood effect flooring is also part of the interior fit-out.

Abellio led the way with enhanced interior specifications on TfL vehicles with its Future Bus work on route 63 in 2022. That was adopted for its first StreetDeck Electroliner deliveries, which entered service on route 111 in South West London during 2022.

Speaking about the latest order with Wrightbus, Abellio London Managing Director Jon Eardley says: “Abellio sits at the forefront of EV bus technology in London, leading the way with the introduction of zero-emission buses across our six depots.

“We are proud to support TfL and the Mayor of London’s goals to decarbonise London’s streets. Abellio’s investment in state-of-the-art EV fleet and comprehensive infrastructure has already provided millions of customers with comfortable, cleaner, and greener journeys.

“We are very excited about the future as we energise all six of our London depots and work in partnership with Wrightbus to serve our customers with innovative zero-emission journeys.”

 

[Edvid]

Out of curiosity I checked BusTimes to see if a certain repowered bus was back on the roads this morning...

LT11 LTZ 1011​

Friday 17 November 2023

Route	Trip	To
390	489290	12:06	Archway	Map
390	489291	12:08	Archway	Map
390	489292	12:27	Victoria	Map
390	489293	13:47	Archway	Map
390	489294	15:00	Archway	Map
390	489412	16:10	Archway	Map
390	489413	17:38	Archway	Map
390	489414	18:51	Archway	Map
390	489415	19:13	Archway	Map
390	489416	20:30	Archway	Map

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Nov 2023 ==

It had been out of service for more than 4 months, which begs the question - is it still an EV? And why the lack of Victoria-bound journeys?

 

[M803UYA]

It had been out of service for more than 4 months, which begs the question - is it still an EV? And why the lack of Victoria-bound journeys?

It'll be definitely zero emission if it's gone nowhere for 4 months?

 

[TWBG]

It'll be definitely zero emission if it's gone nowhere for 4 months?

I mean, the Routemaster EV is a flop because it’s rarely in service

 

[M803UYA]

I mean, the Routemaster EV is a flop because it’s rarely in service

So the emissions, they'd be somewhat reduced in that scenario?

 

[Edvid]

Londonist have updated their article on the ieTrams - TfL are now saying the route 358 opportunity-charging trials will start in spring 2024, so consider that as 30 June or thereabouts if you're somewhat cynically-minded. For what it's worth, Londonist had considered the prospect of this project being dropped altogether.

These Futuristic Tram-Buses Should Be On London's Streets From Spring 2024​

The future of the London bus is here. At least it will be in 2024, if you live between Crystal Palace and Orpington.

Last year we reported that in its ongoing push towards a net zero emissions network, TfL announced the rollout of 20 new emission-free electric buses, on the 358 route between Crystal Palace and Orpington.

The vehicles were originally due to be trialled in 2023 (even Sadiq Khan was posting about how excited he was about the news) but that hasn't happened — and TfL now tells us trials will run in spring 2024.

If you think the vehicles — created by the Spanish manufacturer Irizar e-mobility — look somewhat tram-like, you're not wrong: in fact the vehicle's official name is the ieTram, so called because, according to Irizar, it combines the "ease of access and internal configuration of a tram with the flexibility of a city bus."

While most of TfL's current 850-odd electric buses are charged overnight in a garage, the ieTram gets its juice using a pantograph — an arm-like structure, which gives a rapid, high-power charge to the bus through its roof. There'll be one of these positioned at each end of the route, and with less than 10 minutes of charging, the vehicles are then ready to travel again, along what is one of the longest London bus routes.

While the ieTram buses will be rolled out from spring 2024 (no exact date yet), TfL tells Londonist there are currently no plans to expand the trial. This is at odds with what we were first told; that if trials were successful, vehicles across more routes would likely be in the offing. It's unclear what's delayed, and subsequently changed, TfL's plans. But at least it hasn't, as we were starting to fear, been scrapped altogether.

The tram-buses then, might not quite be the future of London transport. But they could be the future of one particular bus route in southeast London. And we'll be hopping on one, whether we need to get to Orpington or not.

Last Updated 22 November 2023

 

[MasterSpenny]

Londonist had considered the prospect of this project being dropped altogether.

That would make me wonder why the contract was even awarded as an electric one in the first place. If it is dropped, could another Orpington route take them?

 

[MotCO]

The contract for the 358 started in September 2020, and the initial period is for 5 years. Will the new buses be in service before the contract finishes??!!

 

[PGAT]

That would make me wonder why the contract was even awarded as an electric one in the first place. If it is dropped, could another Orpington route take them?

You would still need new infrastructure at the other end so the same fiasco would probably happen all over again

 

[MotCO]

You would still need new infrastructure at the other end so the same fiasco would probably happen all over again

Or operate out of Bexleyheath where there are operational pantagraphs?

 

[PGAT]

Or operate out of Bexleyheath where there are operational pantagraphs?

Ah I forgot about that. In that case it could go to the B14 then

 

[Busaholic]

Ah I forgot about that. In that case it could go to the B14 then

Couldn't pantographs be installed at Bromley North and then the 227 could be converted? That route was very suited to high class buses previously.

 

[MotCO]

Ah I forgot about that. In that case it could go to the B14 then

Too long? Maybe they can be used on the Fasttrack services in Dartford. That may start before the 358 gets the IeTrams

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Nov 2023 ==

Couldn't pantographs be installed at Bromley North and then the 227 could be converted? That route was very suited to high class buses previously.

The time it has taken to get the overheads fitted at Orpington and Crystal Palace, the only way the 227 could be converted is if they had started work in 2000!

 

[Busoccultation]

Ah I forgot about that. In that case it could go to the B14 then

B14 is operated by Stagecoach and also parts of the route around Sidcup/Albany Park are restricted to short single deckers.

 

[London Trains]

Couldn't pantographs be installed at Bromley North and then the 227 could be converted? That route was very suited to high class buses previously.

That wouldn't be necessary, the 227 is quite a short route in comparison to the 358 so the buses could just recharge at the Crystal Palace end using the pantograph that is already installed there.

 

[AlbertBeale]

You would still need new infrastructure at the other end so the same fiasco would probably happen all over again

So will modern trolleybuses (as in some overseas places, where a battery covers some parts of the route, and only part is wired) make a comeback...? This doesn't require the vehicle to sit at one end of the route while charging, and it doesn't require such a heavy-duty battery as a vehicle which has to run the whole length of a route before it can be recharged.

 

[Edsmith]

Or operate out of Bexleyheath where there are operational pantagraphs?

I think there is only one pantograph at BX which is used by buses on the 132. The 227 should be able to manage with just the Crystal Palace pantograph being a fairly short route.

 

[Snow1964]

RATP have exercised 3 year break clause on few more routes. Presumably they're loss making, although they are likely to bid again at a higher price.

There are now quite a lot of extra routes awaiting Invitation to tender (see table on link)

Tendering Programme Update 14th November 2023
Routes 29/N29, 109/N109, 126, 212, 357 and 497 have all had two - year extensions agreed under the terms of the Quality Incentive Contracts, therefore they will no longer form part of the Tendering Programme for 2024 - 2025.
The current contracts for routes 49, 117, 398, 697 and H9/H10 will now terminate early, therefore they have been added to the 2024/25 Tendering Programme as a supplementary tranche, numbered 893A.
Route 118 has been reallocated from Tranche 906 to a separate tranche (906A).
Route 389/399, which currently operates during the Monday to Friday interpeak and Saturday daytimes only, was originally allocated to Tranche 913A of the 2025/26 Tendering Programme. It will now be reallocated to Tranche 904 of the 2024/25 Tendering Programme, to form a combined contract with route 299, as it uses a peak only bus from that route.

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/uploads/forms/002-tender-programme-update-nov-2023.pdf

I haven't done a proper count up, but there now must be something like 250 buses and 800 drivers worth of work that RATP has chosen to exercise their break clause. Some of these routes on the table expire in 7 months so not having issued an ITT yet, suggests a very compressed bidding timetable, and potentially a real pain for others to find buses and staff.

There are virtually no garages with spare capacity in parts of London so maybe RATP is hoping some bids are unopposed. Also, it is big risk for alternative operators to staff the routes, as TUPE is not automatic (it only applies to those rostered 50% or more on routes changing hands, so it's easy to roster staff if you have a shortage so they don't get TUPE eligibility).

 

[johncrossley]

So will modern trolleybuses (as in some overseas places, where a battery covers some parts of the route, and only part is wired) make a comeback...? This doesn't require the vehicle to sit at one end of the route while charging, and it doesn't require such a heavy-duty battery as a vehicle which has to run the whole length of a route before it can be recharged.

The pantograph system has been used successfully for many years now in several European countries, especially in the Netherlands, so there's little wrong with the concept in general. Because of the terminus charging that means a reduced weight of batteries is required compared to overnight depot charging. Don't forget, the power requirements in other countries are higher because the buses are properly specified with double-glazing and air-conditioning, which adds to the weight.

 

[Goldfish62]

The pantograph system has been used successfully for many years now in several European countries, especially in the Netherlands, so there's little wrong with the concept in general. Because of the terminus charging that means a fewer weight of batteries is required compared to overnight depot charging. Don't forget, the power requirements in other countries are higher because the buses are properly specified with double-glazing and air-conditioning, which adds to the weight.

Interestingly, the route 358 ieTrams have full air conditioning.

 

[MasterSpenny]

Looks like the Switch MetroCities for route 377 have started surfacing. These have not got high spec unfortunately.

Would love to see one appear on the 192 at some point! Or even send it on the 318
(Not my video)

 

[RacsoMoquette]

Unfortunately, earlier this week two of Metroline's Optare Metrodecker EVs fuse boxes blew up. I am led to believe that the vehicles in question were OME 2677 ( YJ69 DFX) and OME 2674 (YJ69 DFP). This has subsequently seen new 73 registration WDEs and some TEs take over work on the 317 and VMHs and VWHs take up work on the 134 until further notice.

I wonder if Arriva London, Stagecoach and Abellio will see yet more delays in bringing their new Switch Metrocities into service. It is a massive shame as Metroline's batch of Metrodeckers are absolutely fabulous buses to ride on from a passenger perspective. However disappointingly I hear that their reliability is somewhat dire and their reputation has been tarnished due to poor reliability, and we all know what happened last May.

 

[MasterSpenny]

However unfortunately earlier this week two of Metrolines Optare Metrodecker EVs fuse boxes blew up I am led to believe that the vehicles in question where OME 2677 ( YJ69 DFX) and OME 2674 (YJ69 DFP), this has subsequently seen new 73 registration WDEs and some TEs to take over work on the 317 and VMHs and VWHs to take up work on the 134 until further notice. I wonder if Arriva London, Stagecoach and Abellio will see yet more delays in bringing their new Switch Metrocities in to service? it is a massive shame as Metrolines batch of Metrodeckers are absolutely fabulous buses to ride on as a passenger perspective, however disappointingly I hear that their reliability is somewhat dire and their reputation has been tarnished due to poor reliability, and we all know what happened last May.

Source for the fuse box explosion is below. Also the StreeDeck Electroliners you mention are 23 plate, not 73 plate.

Oops, there was an error! | The Bus Forum

Visit our forum at: tangytango.proboards.com

tangytango.proboards.com

The OMEs seem to have been pulled for the most part it seems, with VW1265/1365-6/1820 transferring over to PB for now.

From what I've read elsewhere the reason why is the result of fuse boxes in OME2677 and 2674 blowing up.

 

[Goldfish62]

Looks like the Switch MetroCities for route 377 have started surfacing. These have not got high spec unfortunately.

Part-way there. Wood effect flooring and TFT ibus screen by the look of it.