London Buses Discussion

[Busaholic]

As someone who has regularly traveled on the 59 I cant say I have noticed many people using it to travel between Kings Cross and Waterloo at any time of day

Not now In any case, in order to see people 'not' travelling between those two points at any time of day, you must presumably have been travelling on the 59 between those points yourself. QED.

 

[Ianno87]

Or it blurs the line between home and and work which is not necessarily a good thing.

I'd agree with you there.

As long as it's not 'forced' it's a good thing. Work when/where suits you.

I find its useful as, when working from home, I can take odd breaks here and there to do the laundry, dishes, etc, freeing up evening time. As long as you keep to strict 'on/off' times (not checking e-mails in the evening, etc.)

I appreciate it's not to everyone's liking.

 

[matt_world2004]

Are TfL encouraging it again?

They did for years and did it themselves for years and then had a change in the head of HR who tried to ban it. Some people had contracts explicitly allowing it, but it went from being promoted internally to discouraged overnight.

I wonder if it's allowed for TfL office staff again?

They are calling it smartworking which is basically code for we havent got enough office space for tfl staff.I'm operational and when doing administrative functions related to my operational role. I have been allowed to do it from home

 

[Antman]

Not now In any case, in order to see people 'not' travelling between those two points at any time of day, you must presumably have been travelling on the 59 between those points yourself. QED.

The 59 was often near empty between Euston and Kings Cross, the 91 is an alternative as far as Aldwych and it's an easy change of bus at no extra cost for Waterloo.

 

[becon-t]

On my bus times app, for my local bus stop which serves route 8 and N8 which runs the new bus for London, it is saying from the 9th August "you will be required to board through the front door only validating Oyster on the rear next to the driver". Has anyone seen this for other routes? I've not seen anything officially from TfL either

 

[Antman]

On my bus times app, for my local bus stop which serves route 8 and N8 which runs the new bus for London, it is saying from the 9th August "you will be required to board through the front door only validating Oyster on the rear next to the driver". Has anyone seen this for other routes? I've not seen anything officially from TfL either

It's going to be gradually introduced on all LT operated routes.

 

[Antman]

Where are people going? Using the tube? Scooters? Walking? Or a large number of foreign workers having decided to leave the UK and find somewhere more welcoming to work in Europe?

I haven't personally felt any buses I've been on have been a lot quieter, but that's purely anecdotal.

A number of reasons, more people working from home as has been mentioned, more people walking and cycling, improvements in rail services with off peak zone 2-6 fares now the same as buses, the decline in High Street shopping with more and people shopping online nowadays etc etc.

 

[Wirewiper]

On my bus times app, for my local bus stop which serves route 8 and N8 which runs the new bus for London, it is saying from the 9th August "you will be required to board through the front door only validating Oyster on the rear next to the driver". Has anyone seen this for other routes? I've not seen anything officially from TfL either

The 8/N8 will be the first route. The door controls in the driver's cab are being modified, so the front door can be opened independently of the middle and rear doors.

Current procedure is that the driver opens all doors at each stop for passengers to board and alight.

New procedure will be that the driver opens the front door if there are people waiting at the stop, and opens the middle and rear doors if a passenger has requested to alight.

Wheelchair passengers will continue to board via the ramp at middle doors (they travel free and are not required to "prove" their entitlement to do so by touching in). Adults pushing a baby in a buggy can also board by the middle doors if they check with the driver first that it is OK to do so.

All LT-operated routes will gradually move over to this system as the door modifications are carried out.

 

[Antman]

Or it blurs the line between home and and work which is not necessarily a good thing.

I really don't see that argument at all, staff are able to do the same work but in a more comfortable environment, no travel time or costs and the employer saves on office space costs.

 

[Busaholic]

The 59 was often near empty between Euston and Kings Cross, the 91 is an alternative as far as Aldwych and it's an easy change of bus at no extra cost for Waterloo.

Many routes are often near empty, in one direction anyway, a short distance from their terminus at certain times of day. Changes of bus are never easy for sections of the population, with or without bags, pushchairs, etc. The stop at Aldwych you refer to, though served by many routes, can actually be a nightmare to use for that very reason if several arrive virtually together. The 'no extra cost' argument is a weasel one: that would be so if Waterloo or Kings Cross had been the point where you made your first bus journey from, but if you'd got there by another bus (or been on the 59 from Streatham Hill, for instance) you might be 'timed out.'

 

[Antman]

Many routes are often near empty, in one direction anyway, a short distance from their terminus at certain times of day. Changes of bus are never easy for sections of the population, with or without bags, pushchairs, etc. The stop at Aldwych you refer to, though served by many routes, can actually be a nightmare to use for that very reason if several arrive virtually together. The 'no extra cost' argument is a weasel one: that would be so if Waterloo or Kings Cross had been the point where you made your first bus journey from, but if you'd got there by another bus (or been on the 59 from Streatham Hill, for instance) you might be 'timed out.'

You simply can't have bus links from everywhere to everywhere. It's going to be necessary to change buses sometimes and there are other options than Aldwych to change at.

There may be a case for rerouting the 91 to Waterloo if there is a desperate need to retain the link to King's Cross but I very much doubt there is.

And somebody travelling from Streatham Hill to King's Cross could take a 133 or 333 to Elephant & Castle and change there to a 63 within an hour.

 

[IanD]

I really don't see that argument at all, staff are able to do the same work but in a more comfortable environment, no travel time or costs and the employer saves on office space costs.

Then I suspect you've never had such a way of working forced upon you.

 

[Antman]

Then I suspect you've never had such a way of working forced upon you.

No I haven't but what's that got to do with it?

 

[IanD]

No I haven't but what's that got to do with it?

Maybe if this happens to you, you will understand rather than dismissing out of hand the comments of someone who has experienced this.

 

[Antman]

Maybe if this happens to you, you will understand rather than dismissing out of hand the comments of someone who has experienced this.

So you enjoy the commute to work?

 

[Be3G]

Well this is exciting: some bus routes are starting to see frequency increases!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Anyone who's been following the plight of London's bus routes during the last couple of years will understand the reason for all the exclamation marks…)

It's finally the case that TfL's list of permanent bus service changes is showing some positive news rather than constant service reductions, and some of the improvements are even during off-peak hours too. Perhaps most notably the 158 is getting an increase from 7½ bph to 10 – I understand from the local paper that this is something people have been clamouring for for a long time.

Now all we need is for TfL to cancel their bonkers plan to withdraw the 48, which I caught just a few days ago and found was a very well used bus route.

(Hmm, the next London mayoral election will be in less than a year…)

 

[telstarbox]

I popped out today and saw a bus with a "BUS FULL" sign in the driver's window (in the Lewisham area, can't remember which route). Is this something which TfL have introduced or depots taking their own initiative?

 

[MotCO]

I popped out today and saw a bus with a "BUS FULL" sign in the driver's window (in the Lewisham area, can't remember which route). Is this something which TfL have introduced or depots taking their own initiative?

It is also shown on Stagecoach and Metrobus routes in Orpington, so I suspect that it is a TfL initiative.

 

[chopperman21]

The bus full sign as shown here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/124193440@N06/49959059096/in/dateposted-public/ (albeit bad use of sign, given the bus is empty) is all part of reopening the front door and allowing the driver to control the numbers of people on each bus.

 

[MotCO]

Metrobus has won the contract to continue to operate the 358 from September 2020, but using new electric buses. Has anyone seen any announcement as to what these new buses will be? I'm assuming Enviro 200s like the Red Arrows, but I've not seen any confirmation; it would make a change if they were Optare Versas or Metrocities. I also assume that they will not be available from day one.

Likewise, I've seen on the London Omnibus Traction Society's web site (http://www.lots.org.uk/) that the 200, won by Go-Ahead, will be operated by double deck electric buses, I believe the first for this company. Again, will they be Optare's or ADLs?

 

[cnjb8]

Metrobus has won the contract to continue to operate the 358 from September 2020, but using new electric buses. Has anyone seen any announcement as to what these new buses will be? I'm assuming Enviro 200s like the Red Arrows, but I've not seen any confirmation; it would make a change if they were Optare Versas or Metrocities. I also assume that they will not be available from day one.

Likewise, I've seen on the London Omnibus Traction Society's web site (http://www.lots.org.uk/) that the 200, won by Go-Ahead, will be operated by double deck electric buses, I believe the first for this company. Again, will they be Optare's or ADLs?

If it's the route operated by Orpingtons Citaros, then this was announced a few months ago.

 

[MotCO]

If it's the route operated by Orpingtons Citaros, then this was announced a few months ago.

Yes, it is the route currently operated by Citaros, but what will they be using in the future? Or are you saying that it will be electric Citaros?

 

[cnjb8]

Yes, it is the route currently operated by Citaros, but what will they be using in the future? Or are you saying that it will be electric Citaros?

No. I'm not sure what they'll use in the future. Its most likely BYD/ADL E200EV

 

[MotCO]

No. I'm not sure what they'll use in the future. Its most likely BYD/ADL E200EV

I think the award was made last December, but as I've said, I've not seen any further news.

 

[chopperman21]

Metrobus has won the contract to continue to operate the 358 from September 2020, but using new electric buses. Has anyone seen any announcement as to what these new buses will be? I'm assuming Enviro 200s like the Red Arrows, but I've not seen any confirmation; it would make a change if they were Optare Versas or Metrocities. I also assume that they will not be available from day one.

Likewise, I've seen on the London Omnibus Traction Society's web site (http://www.lots.org.uk/) that the 200, won by Go-Ahead, will be operated by double deck electric buses, I believe the first for this company. Again, will they be Optare's or ADLs?

Go-Ahead London (GAL) will complete this month the introduction of 49 ADL Enviro 400 EV's at Northumberland Park garage, given all significant electric orders for GAL have been ADL so far, that maybe an indication of what future orders may consist of.

 

[telstarbox]

From TfL today:

We are committed to helping London's schools reopen safely in September 2020. Around 250,000 school children use London's buses to get to and from school. So, from 1 September until the end of October 2020 we're planning to add over 200 extra buses to the network.

We're also planning to prioritise some of our bus services for school travel. Government guidance allows for all seats to be occupied on these 'school services', doubling their capacity, which is currently limited due to necessary social distancing.

Bus changes

Permanent changes to TfL bus routes including new routes and changes to first and last stops.

tfl.gov.uk

 

[700007]

Metrobus has won the contract to continue to operate the 358 from September 2020, but using new electric buses. Has anyone seen any announcement as to what these new buses will be? I'm assuming Enviro 200s like the Red Arrows, but I've not seen any confirmation; it would make a change if they were Optare Versas or Metrocities. I also assume that they will not be available from day one.

Likewise, I've seen on the London Omnibus Traction Society's web site (http://www.lots.org.uk/) that the 200, won by Go-Ahead, will be operated by double deck electric buses, I believe the first for this company. Again, will they be Optare's or ADLs?

Not confirmed at all and this is pure speculation from my view.... But part of the Red Arrow Fleet could go to the 358, which would explain why nothing has been ordered. The 507/521 in a post pandemic World where increased home working seems to be quite popular will no longer need 51 buses between themselves and will probably be in line for a huge PVR cut. 507 at an every 10 minute frequency only needs about 5 buses, and 521 at an every 8 minute frequency could probably work with around 10 buses too. So that's roughly 20 buses to use between the two routes and 31 now free.... I would expect them to go to the 358 and possibly other routes too, maybe the 227 with the WSs going elsewhere.

 

[Busaholic]

Not confirmed at all and this is pure speculation from my view.... But part of the Red Arrow Fleet could go to the 358, which would explain why nothing has been ordered. The 507/521 in a post pandemic World where increased home working seems to be quite popular will no longer need 51 buses between themselves and will probably be in line for a huge PVR cut. 507 at an every 10 minute frequency only needs about 5 buses, and 521 at an every 8 minute frequency could probably work with around 10 buses too. So that's roughly 20 buses to use between the two routes and 31 now free.... I would expect them to go to the 358 and possibly other routes too, maybe the 227 with the WSs going elsewhere.

That's an interesting idea, and you could be on to something; however, I can't quite see that level of cut being applied initially, although it might happen later on, for social distancing reasons as much as anything.

 

[urpert]

Interestingly the 358 has been running with an odd selection of vehicles recently. Around 70% Citaro, the one Scania and the rest a mixture of WS and various “ordinary” E200s.

 

[MotCO]

Not confirmed at all and this is pure speculation from my view.... But part of the Red Arrow Fleet could go to the 358, which would explain why nothing has been ordered. The 507/521 in a post pandemic World where increased home working seems to be quite popular will no longer need 51 buses between themselves and will probably be in line for a huge PVR cut. 507 at an every 10 minute frequency only needs about 5 buses, and 521 at an every 8 minute frequency could probably work with around 10 buses too. So that's roughly 20 buses to use between the two routes and 31 now free.... I would expect them to go to the 358 and possibly other routes too, maybe the 227 with the WSs going elsewhere.

Whilst this is a possibility, the only thing I'd say is that the contract award was a long time before Covid struck, and, probably until the last month or so, the possibility of a permanent significant reduction in numbers commuting was far from certain.