• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

London bus driver protest

Status
Not open for further replies.

notadriver

Established Member
Joined
1 Oct 2010
Messages
3,735
Protest in London today.

http://www.unitetheunion.org/news/london-bus-drivers-take-to-the-streets-to-demand-decent-wages/


Hundreds of London’s bus drivers, all members of the UK’s largest union Unite, will take to the streets tomorrow (Thursday 11 September) to voice their concerns over the continual erosion of their terms and conditions and to demand a reinstatement of collective bargaining for all bus drivers across London.

The union’s 25,000 bus driver members, from over a dozen bus companies in London (see notes) are demanding ‘sector wide negotiations’ between their union Unite and their employers, to close the massive disparity of up to 25 per cent, in their pay and terms and conditions.

Unite says that collective negotiations will bring greater job security. The current system has led to many bus drivers being paid up to 25 percent less despite doing the same job for the same employer. The pay some bus drivers receive can be as little as £17,000 depending on the company they work for.

London bus companies are required to compete to win routes put out to tender by Transport for London. The explosion in competition has led to an unprecedented squeeze on the pay, terms and conditions of all bus workers, as individual bus companies choose to bid low to maximise profits at the expense of these dedicated workers.

Are London bus drivers underpaid despite being the best paid bus drivers in the country ?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

ScotGG

Established Member
Joined
3 Apr 2013
Messages
1,585
Just because other areas pay terribly doesn't mean a slightly less terrible wage is acceptable.

I hate this race to the bottom notion. The idea that "I've lost most of my rights and get terrible pay therefore everyone else should too, rather than mine being improved."
 

TRN481V

Member
Joined
6 Mar 2011
Messages
104
Location
The inner recesses of my tortured mind.
I hate this race to the bottom notion. The idea that "I've lost most of my rights and get terrible pay therefore everyone else should too, rather than mine being improved."

I couldn't agree more. I'm on a fairly decent wage with a large national bus company here in the North West but I do think that London bus drivers deserve a wage above what they are on at the moment. I spent a while driving for Metrobus out of their Orpington garage and while I didn't drive into central London I certainly found the job very stressful - far more than my job is now.

A wage halfway between the average TfL bus driver's pay and the average TfL Tube driver's pay would be fair, in my opinion.
 

deltic

Established Member
Joined
8 Feb 2010
Messages
3,713
I couldn't agree more. I'm on a fairly decent wage with a large national bus company here in the North West but I do think that London bus drivers deserve a wage above what they are on at the moment. I spent a while driving for Metrobus out of their Orpington garage and while I didn't drive into central London I certainly found the job very stressful - far more than my job is now.

A wage halfway between the average TfL bus driver's pay and the average TfL Tube driver's pay would be fair, in my opinion.

I have never understood the differential between tube and bus drivers pay - the latter seems to be far more stressful and skilled then the former although now bus drivers no longer handle money one area of conflict has been removed from the job
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,671
I have never understood the differential between tube and bus drivers pay - the latter seems to be far more stressful and skilled then the former although now bus drivers no longer handle money one area of conflict has been removed from the job

It would be interesting to hear the views of somebody who'd done both jobs, if such a person existed. Personally I think anyone who's on the Northern Line, for example, would be entitled to a fair bit more than any bus driver, particularly during a heatwave, notwithstanding traffic conditions and difficult passengers.
 

Robertj21a

On Moderation
Joined
22 Sep 2013
Messages
7,691
Have you ever heard of a tube driver who left the job voluntarily ? -no, nor have I. That probably says a lot about pay versus workload.
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,671
Have you ever heard of a tube driver who left the job voluntarily ? -no, nor have I. That probably says a lot about pay versus workload.

No, but it is just about feasible that somebody has done it the other way round. It would be an extremely unlucky bus driver who had somone throw themselves under his/her bus even once, let alone two or three times; in an emergency de-bussing 80 passengers onto a road is rather easier than de-training 300 passengers stuck in a tunnel between Mile End and Liverpool Street. Actually, I believe several tube drivers leave every year through stress-related illnesses, not all caused by potential suicides. I'm not demeaning bus drivers in any way (see my moniker) and think they should be paid better, just not to the level of tube drivers.
 

Antman

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2013
Messages
6,840
I have never understood the differential between tube and bus drivers pay - the latter seems to be far more stressful and skilled then the former although now bus drivers no longer handle money one area of conflict has been removed from the job

But the area of conflict hasn't been removed, if the driver cannot accept cash many people expect (or even demand) a free ride, if anything the job has become more stressful since cash fares were abolished.

And I've never understood the pay difference between bus and tube drivers either!
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,671
But the area of conflict hasn't been removed, if the driver cannot accept cash many people expect (or even demand) a free ride, if anything the job has become more stressful since cash fares were abolished.

And I've never understood the pay difference between bus and tube drivers either!

Not surprised to hear the job has become more stressful since cash fares were abolished, an indefensible policy IMO.
The pay differential has always been there. I'm afraid it is just a fact of life that the job of tube driver will always be more prized because there's a lot more to learn than from being a bus driver, given that most bus drivers had some car driving experience beforehand and the novice tubedriver is starting from scratch. You don't want tube drivers just spending six months in the job before jacking it in because the pay wasn't worth it: of course, you don't want it in the bus industry either, but there you can always move company or change area.

Other reasons for the differential are
(a) The power of the rail unions as against TGWU etc. The disastrous London bus strike of 1958 is not forgotten by those either old enough to remember it or those with an interest in transport history
(b) So many different bus companies in London now compared with one L.T.E. and with the threat from management that if costs are not held down then the contract for a particular route may be awarded to another firm (sometimes with the same drivers!) so 'divide and rule'

It will be interesting to see how much tube drivers will get offered to run all-night services when they come.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
In above, read Unite for TGWU - old habits die hard!
 

notadriver

Established Member
Joined
1 Oct 2010
Messages
3,735
There's plenty of ex bus drivers on here who drive trains and in my case I drive coaches a few times a month.
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,671
There's plenty of ex bus drivers on here who drive trains and in my case I drive coaches a few times a month.

With respect, we are talking about the Underground and nobody on here has revealed themselves as falling into both categories. Someone who has done both jobs would probably be the only person really able to assess the differentials.
 

notadriver

Established Member
Joined
1 Oct 2010
Messages
3,735
Hmmm - in this instance is an underground train driver not the same regular train driver? For reference I'm an ex London bus driver too.
 

DG85

Member
Joined
5 Jul 2010
Messages
35
There's plenty of ex bus drivers on here who drive trains and in my case I drive coaches a few times a month.

Hey I just had a quick question regarding being a train driver and driving coaches a few times a month. Do you need to notify the company you work for or need to mention working casually on the side?

I'm thinking about doing this in my spare time
 

Tetchytyke

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Sep 2013
Messages
17,474
Location
Isle of Man
Are London bus drivers underpaid despite being the best paid bus drivers in the country ?

The London Living Wage- the absolute minimum it's considered necessary to be able to afford to live in London- is £8.80 per hour. For a 37.5 hour week that works out at £17,160.

Bus drivers are therefore barely earning the minimum wage you need to survive in London, and they're earning that despite the antisocial hours and the stress of the job.
 

notadriver

Established Member
Joined
1 Oct 2010
Messages
3,735
Only new starters get that rate. The ones who've been there a few years get around £15/ hour.
 

Greenback

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
9 Aug 2009
Messages
15,268
Location
Llanelli
Whenever I visit London I see adverts promising £25k for driving this bus. Is that average earnings including overtime?
 

radamfi

Established Member
Joined
29 Oct 2009
Messages
9,267
But the area of conflict hasn't been removed, if the driver cannot accept cash many people expect (or even demand) a free ride, if anything the job has become more stressful since cash fares were abolished

I thought that the driver was supposed to ask if the passenger has a contactless card. If not, I understood that the driver no longer has any further responsibility and can just drive on without further delay. It is then at the passenger's risk if he wants to board without paying. If an inspector gets on then the passenger risks a Penalty Fare or worse.
 

radamfi

Established Member
Joined
29 Oct 2009
Messages
9,267
I remember seeing a job advert for tram drivers in Manchester and I was surprised that the pay was so low in comparison with train drivers. Not much more than bus drivers.
 

Tetchytyke

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Sep 2013
Messages
17,474
Location
Isle of Man
Whenever I visit London I see adverts promising £25k for driving this bus. Is that average earnings including overtime?

It's an advert, it'll be the top of the pay scale with a bit of overtime thrown in. It's always "earn up to" in the same way sales jobs always include "on target commission" as part of the salary in adverts.

I'm sure the £17k that Unite mention is a trainee or a starter rate, and that most drivers earn a bit more than that. I guess my point is that even £20k sounds good if you don't live in London, but really £17k is the minimum you need from a full time job to survive in London these days.
 

Greenback

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
9 Aug 2009
Messages
15,268
Location
Llanelli
That's what I thought. £17k isn't anywhere near enough remuneration for driving in London, even without the passengers. Add in the shifts as well and £25k should be the basic!
 

radamfi

Established Member
Joined
29 Oct 2009
Messages
9,267
Presumably bus drivers will get increases if wages in the wider economy increase as they are predicted to. If unemployment continues to fall then companies will have to pay more to retain staff.
 

Titfield

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2013
Messages
3,215
AFAIK the hourly rate quoted (by most London Bus Contractors) is between £11.50 and £13.50 per hour. The rate increasing from the base rate of £11.50 for weekend / bank holiday / night work.

The number of hours work per week varies according to the duty / shift pattern. However an average of 42 - 44 hours per week is not uncommon.

Thus if the driver works an average 42 hour week at £12 per hour then £504 gross is the pay.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top