London Bridge Thameslink Diversions and Southern Services

[Minstral25]

I get this train often... a large proportion of passengers get on at redhill.. taking the last of the seats.

Well you and a full train load of other people will not be doing so in January as the train is completely removed from the Timetable as far as I can tell.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Provisional information now available on Open Train Times for train times from January. Not sure how much can be read into it:

http://www.opentraintimes.com/locat...on&show_stp=on&show_var=on&show_wtt=on&utf8=✓

Looks like the 0740 from Reigate is diverted to Victoria which will displease a lot of customers


http://www.opentraintimes.com/locat...on&show_stp=on&show_var=on&show_wtt=on&utf8=✓

Lots to complain about I expect.

The 7:40 from Reigate is being retimed to 7:44 and being attached to the 7:54 at Redhill which is a service from Horsham to Victoria, instead of the 7:51 to London Bridge which was also a train from Horsham but to London Bridge. The 7:51 is removed from the timetable completely.

So the effect is that there was a 7:40 and 7:51 from Redhill to London Bridge which are the two most overcrowded trains in the morning, plus a 7:54 to Victoria. Instead there will be a 7:40 to London Bridge and a 7:54 to London Victoria.

Redhill to London Bridge customers will be unhappy to say the least.

 

[TEW]

Off-Peak Redhill does see improvements though. It gets an additional 2tph Three Bridges-Bedford service.

 

[Minstral25]

Off-Peak Redhill does see improvements though. It gets an additional 2tph Three Bridges-Bedford service.

That is in the December 2015 changes not January 2015 and is in fact Marketing hype by Govia.

Yes we will get a new service to London Blackfriars being a very slow service replacing the Arun Valley trains. So we lose trains to Bognor, Portsmouth and Southampton and get a train to Gatwick instead.

Going North towards London instead of 4 trains per hour to London Bridge we will have just 2. So they are not extra trains just diverted trains.

Positive is that the Tonbridge and Reigate trains will be our 2 per hour Victoria trains going non-stop from Redhill to East Croydon replacing the Arun Valley trains which may improve reliability as they will not skip Redhill constantly when 3 or 4 minutes late.

 

[greatkingrat]

I don't know where you have got your information from, but OTT is showing in Jan 2015 that Redhill will still have 2tph Victoria - Arun Valley and 4tph London Bridge - Horsham/Tonbridge/Reigate, plus a new 2tph Bedford - Three Bridges.

The Bedford service is booked to take 40 minutes to Blackfriars, which is similar to the existing London Bridge services.

 

[Minstral25]

I don't know where you have got your information from, but OTT is showing in Jan 2015 that Redhill will still have 2tph Victoria - Arun Valley and 4tph London Bridge - Horsham/Tonbridge/Reigate, plus a new 2tph Bedford - Three Bridges.

The Bedford service is booked to take 40 minutes to Blackfriars, which is similar to the existing London Bridge services.

Yes the Arun Valley change is in December 2015 as per the Govia presentation which they confirmed is the plan in their presentation meetings.

I don't know where you have the timings for the Bedford service but it will call Merstham, Coulsdon South, Purley, East Croydon, Herne Hill, Elephant and Castle and then Blackfriars. I would think 40 minutes is optimistic for that.

Current peak Bedford services take about 40 minutes but they don't stop except at East Croydon and sometimes Elephant and Castle.

However they will be running a timetable consultation before that is finalised so perhaps I am jumping the gun a bit.

 

[greatkingrat]

The timings are at http://opentraintimes.com/schedule/L05026/2015-01-13

Depart Redhill xx57, arrive Blackfriars xx37, stopping at East Croydon only.

 

[Minstral25]

The timings are at http://opentraintimes.com/schedule/L05026/2015-01-13

Depart Redhill xx57, arrive Blackfriars xx37, stopping at East Croydon only.

Wow I hadn't looked at the detail off peak as I rarely catch them. That is not what Govia said at their presentation but things change I guess. So we will have 8 trains an hour for a year off-peak for 12 months. Will that remain in December 2015 when the Arun Valley services moves away and the Reigate/Tonbridge are redirected.

Govia said that the Bedford service would be all stations not fast to ECR as well. See their presentation here http://assets.goaheadbus.com/media/cms_page_media/1273/Factsheet 7 - Redhill route services.pdf

It also appears we get an evening service as well from Bedford which is excellent as it means we can get trains from Farringdon and City Thameslink which has never been available before. Plus the Vic-Horsham divert from London Bridge after 9pm as well - another wanted first. Good stuff.

 

[Deepgreen]

I have just received a response from Southern to a query about the 0830 from Redhill to London Bridge, which is to be diverted to Victoria from 1 September. It's currently rostered for a single 377/1 or /4, but will be five coaches (wow!) from 1 September. The four coach formation of this train causes much annoyance, as it comes from Horsham and includes Gatwick in its stopping pattern, meaning that it is always very crowded, often with much bulky luggage. This annoyance is compounded when it passes a Horsham-bound working formed from 12 coaches and very sparsely populated!

The booked four minutes of standing time south of East Croydon will be removed as it will be booked to cross to the fast at Stoats Nest Jct, using platform 1 at EC. Southern have told me that this is a permanent diversion, or at least until 2018, when they claim a completely new and improved timetable will be brought in.

 

[Minstral25]

I have just received a response from Southern to a query about the 0830 from Redhill to London Bridge, which is to be diverted to Victoria from 1 September. It's currently rostered for a single 377/1 or /4, but will be five coaches (wow!) from 1 September. The four coach formation of this train causes much annoyance, as it comes from Horsham and includes Gatwick in its stopping pattern, meaning that it is always very crowded, often with much bulky luggage. This annoyance is compounded when it passes a Horsham-bound working formed from 12 coaches and very sparsely populated!

The booked four minutes of standing time south of East Croydon will be removed as it will be booked to cross to the fast at Stoats Nest Jct, using platform 1 at EC. Southern have told me that this is a permanent diversion, or at least until 2018, when they claim a completely new and improved timetable will be brought in.

Good result in some ways.

I think I am learning to distrust Open Train Times as information seems to change regularly. For instance the loss of the 6:56 at Redhill to London Bridge and Blackfriars will be mitigated by a train to Victoria replacing it but that train is not loaded yet as it hasn't been fully worked out.

There will be big changes in December 2018 as the full Thameslink route will be open and trains will change drastically to take advantage of the new routes.

Govia have said they will be making big changes in December 2015 as well as they recast the BML in preparation for Thameslink - presumably to allow themselves a chance to see how robust there new timetables are to allow for tweaks in 2018