London Bridge station late night crime

[Sad Sprinter]

I read about the recent sexual assault that took place in London Bridge station recently late at night. As someone that uses one of the last trains frequently, I have also noticed it seems to attract a level of anti-social behaviour higher than other London terminuses. I've witnessed young men/teens using the Brighton concourse as a football pitch (no staff intervening), someone cycling around the entire concourse in a Lime bike arguing with their passenger (no staff, not even an actual security officer on site intervened), frequently I'll see youths tearing along on rollerblades. Although this seems to happen at all times of day as well, particularly at nearby Canada Water.

I don't remember Victoria, Waterloo or Liverpool Street, which I've been to very late, feeling so off. I can only imagine it has something to do with the wide open multiple entrances to the Network Rail concourse, and the fact it's a little bit set back from the main road. For the former stations, you actually have to go to the area to be there, whereas with London Bridge you can easily wander in from nearby streets.

 

[AirRail]

It's a sad shame and you can almost perfectly picture those stereotypes involved in all of this mentioned antisocial behaviour above. Unfortunately it's caused by a failing society that is continually losing morals, respect and pride - you have to question why and delve into the root cause of this. The layout of LBG probably aids somewhat in attractijg such activity due to it being more easily open and accessible, but it's certainly not limited to this station and not just London either i'm afraid to say.

Behaviour breeds behaviour. Whilstever they are getting away with it, which they do, it will attract others to do the same and it becomes "normal".

 

[yorkie]

It's a sad shame and you can almost perfectly picture those stereotypes involved in all of this mentioned antisocial behaviour above. Unfortunately it's caused by a failing society that is continually losing morals, respect and pride - you have to question why and delve into the root cause of this. The layout of LBG probably aids somewhat in attractijg such activity due to it being more easily open and accessible, but it's certainly not limited to this station and not just London either i'm afraid to say.

Behaviour breeds behaviour. Whilstever they are getting away with it, which they do, it will attract others to do the same and it becomes "normal".

Is there evidence of more anti-social behaviour now than (say) in the 1970s/80s/90s?

It is a common perception among most generations through the ages that crime is getting worse from one generation to the next; this perception persists when there is no evidence for it being true, or even when the reverse is true.

Take this from 23 May 1980:

VIOLENCE ON LONDON TRANSPORT (Hansard, 23 May 1980)

VIOLENCE ON LONDON TRANSPORT (Hansard, 23 May 1980)

api.parliament.uk

...it is now our city where people fear to ride on trains and buses late at night; it is our constituents, families and friends who are assaulted on our public transport...

...Punks, Teds and skinheads are increasingly a hazard for late-night travellers...

I suspect you will find that there are much fewer instances of crime and other anti-social behaviour now, than there were then.

 

[185143]

The only time I've used London Bridge overnight the station was pretty much closed and a SouthEastern member of staff having a smoke had to direct us to a lift near the Shard to get up to the upper level and in from there.

Felt perfectly safe, aside from being a bit of a pain in the backside to get to from the tube.

As someone who works nights occasionally at a major station outside London, yes, issues do appear to happen more late/overnight. However that may be a flawed perception on the fact that a) there's far fewer passengers and b) as an individual I am more likely to be involved with antisocial behaviour/safeguarding issues etc overnight as there is a lower staff presence.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Is there evidence of more anti-social behaviour now than (say) in the 1970s/80s/90s?

It is a common perception among most generations through the ages that crime is getting worse from one generation to the next; this perception persists when there is no evidence for it being true, or even when the reverse is true.

Take this from 23 May 1980:

VIOLENCE ON LONDON TRANSPORT (Hansard, 23 May 1980)

VIOLENCE ON LONDON TRANSPORT (Hansard, 23 May 1980)

api.parliament.uk

I suspect you will find that there are much fewer instances of crime and other anti-social behaviour now, than there were then.

Without wanting to stray into political territory, there is a current tendency among some people, when others complain about the state of the country nowadays, to say that actually the country is marvellous and nobody should be complaining.

Yes, crime in big cities is lower than it was in the grim Seventies and Eighties. That does not change the fact that in the last five years our public realm has rapidly and seriously decayed, with a substantial increase in crime. This is visible to anyone with eyes to see.

 

[D1537]

That does not change the fact that in the last five years our public realm has rapidly and seriously decayed, with a substantial increase in crime. This is visible to anyone with eyes to see.

The data doesn't show that either, with the notable exceptions of shoplifting, drug trafficking and fraud (mostly online).

 

[yorkie]

Without wanting to stray into political territory, there is a current tendency among some people, when others complain about the state of the country nowadays, to say that actually the country is marvellous and nobody should be complaining.

Who? Are you able to provide a link and quote? Is this a strawman argument?

Yes, crime in big cities is lower than it was in the grim Seventies and Eighties. That does not change the fact that in the last five years our public realm has rapidly and seriously decayed, with a substantial increase in crime. This is visible to anyone with eyes to see.

Do you have any data to support a serious decay and substantial increase in crime? If you are arguing that the effects of Covid lockdowns caused various problems, I would absolutely agree with you, and many people did warn about the harms of such measures (but were ignored), but I am not convinced that there has been that much of a decline as you describe.

 

[GusB]

I read about the recent sexual assault that took place in London Bridge station recently late at night.

This is obviously a serious crime and should be dealt with appropriately.

As someone that uses one of the last trains frequently, I have also noticed it seems to attract a level of anti-social behaviour higher than other London terminuses. I've witnessed young men/teens using the Brighton concourse as a football pitch (no staff intervening), someone cycling around the entire concourse in a Lime bike arguing with their passenger (no staff, not even an actual security officer on site intervened), frequently I'll see youths tearing along on rollerblades. Although this seems to happen at all times of day as well, particularly at nearby Canada Water.

One person's "anti-social behaviour" is another person's "youthful high jinx". Playing football, cycling or roller-blading on the concourse may be annoying but those activities aren't major crimes. There may well be some byelaw breaches going on but if no member of staff at the station intervened, it was probably deemed that those activities weren't sufficiently serious enough in the grand scheme of things.

I was never involved with any criminal activity when I was a kid but I used to hang about the streets with friends and probably got up to things that would today be considered as "anti-social behaviour".

A lot of people forget what it's like to be young and if you were to quiz them about what they did when they were younger, they quickly realise that they also did stuff that we'd consider to be "anti-social"; their parents would have done the same.

Of course it's all the fault of music halls, cinemas, radio, television, video games and the internet... Pick any generation and you'll hear them complain about "the youth of today"!

 

[styles]

I've written elsewhere on here somewhere that I think a large part of the crime perception is down to social media. My family members were nicking milk from doorsteps and razzing motocross bikes in the parks back in the 70s, but barely anybody saw them because the population was lower and it wasn't plastered over Facebook and TikTok.

There is potentially an issue regarding people just not reporting crime because they don't have confidence anything will come of it, but even if true, I can't imagine this accounts for e.g. the 83% reduction in violence over the past 35 years.

If I spend just 5 minutes scrolling reels I will see a number of videos of crime. To get that 30 years ago I'd have had to have tuned in to the 10 o'clock news, and even then it probably wouldn't have included footage of the actual event unless we were lucky enough to have it captured on some blurry laggy CCTV.

 

[75A]

I've written elsewhere on here somewhere that I think a large part of the crime perception is down to social media. My family members were nicking milk from doorsteps and razzing motocross bikes in the parks back in the 70s, but barely anybody saw them because the population was lower and it wasn't plastered over Facebook and TikTok.

There is potentially an issue regarding people just not reporting crime because they don't have confidence anything will come of it, but even if true, I can't imagine this accounts for e.g. the 83% reduction in violence over the past 35 years.

If I spend just 5 minutes scrolling reels I will see a number of videos of crime. To get that 30 years ago I'd have had to have tuned in to the 10 o'clock news, and even then it probably wouldn't have included footage of the actual event unless we were lucky enough to have it captured on some blurry laggy CCTV.

Wise words IMO

 

[Lewisham2221]

I've written elsewhere on here somewhere that I think a large part of the crime perception is down to social media. My family members were nicking milk from doorsteps and razzing motocross bikes in the parks back in the 70s, but barely anybody saw them because the population was lower and it wasn't plastered over Facebook and TikTok.

There is potentially an issue regarding people just not reporting crime because they don't have confidence anything will come of it, but even if true, I can't imagine this accounts for e.g. the 83% reduction in violence over the past 35 years.

If I spend just 5 minutes scrolling reels I will see a number of videos of crime. To get that 30 years ago I'd have had to have tuned in to the 10 o'clock news, and even then it probably wouldn't have included footage of the actual event unless we were lucky enough to have it captured on some blurry laggy CCTV.

Spot on.

20 years ago, someone walking down the street trying people's front door handles at 3am likely would've gone totally unnoticed. Nowadays, it's almost certainly captured on at least one person's Ring doorbell, then shared many times over on social media, giving the impression that attempted burglaries are on the rise.

 

[Trackman]

At London Bridge I've seen incidents over the years, muggings, assault on passengers and abuse to station staff.
What I think it comes down to; if you are looking for trouble, trouble will find you. Station staff just become caught up with it.
I had incidents before (as a passenger) where I have kept my mouth shut, knowing just one word would inflame the situation.
It happens all over the network, not just London Bridge.

Felt perfectly safe, aside from being a bit of a pain in the backside to get to from the tube..

I agree, it's very safe, I just stumble across these incidents, it happens all the time across the rail network.
I would say it's safer than Euston.

Going to the pain in the backside tube station, this is a planning mystery, I assume you mean the internal entrance and not the Tooley street one?

 

[DelW]

One person's "anti-social behaviour" is another person's "youthful high jinx". Playing football, cycling or roller-blading on the concourse may be annoying but those activities aren't major crimes. There may well be some byelaw breaches going on but if no member of staff at the station intervened, it was probably deemed that those activities weren't sufficiently serious enough in the grand scheme of things.

I was never involved with any criminal activity when I was a kid but I used to hang about the streets with friends and probably got up to things that would today be considered as "anti-social behaviour".

A lot of people forget what it's like to be young and if you were to quiz them about what they did when they were younger, they quickly realise that they also did stuff that we'd consider to be "anti-social"; their parents would have done the same.

Of course it's all the fault of music halls, cinemas, radio, television, video games and the internet... Pick any generation and you'll hear them complain about "the youth of today"!

It's not just a recent phenomenon...

25 Quotes in 2,500 Years Proving We Always Blame the Younger Generation

This is not new.

historyhustle.com

The 2,500-Year-Old History of Adults Blaming the Younger Generation​

Selected excerpts:

"Our sires’ age was worse than our grandsires’. We, their sons, are more worthless than they; so in our turn we shall give the world a progeny yet more corrupt.”

Book III of Odes, Horace
circa 20 BC

… I find by sad Experience how the Towns and Streets are filled with lewd wicked Children, and many Children as they have played about the Streets have been heard to curse and swear and call one another Nick-names, and it would grieve ones Heart to hear what bawdy and filthy Communications proceeds from the Mouths of such…”

A Little Book for Children and Youth – Being Good Counsel and Instructions for Your Children, Earnestly Exhorting Them to Resist the Temptation of the Devil, Robert Russel
1695

... a fearful multitude of untutored savages… [boys] with dogs at their heels and other evidence of dissolute habits…[girls who] drive coal-carts, ride astride upon horses, drink, swear, fight, smoke, whistle, and care for nobody…the morals of children are tenfold worse than formerly.”

Anthony Ashley Cooper, the 7th Earl of Shaftesbury, Speech to the House of Commons
February 28, 1843

We defy anyone who goes about with his eyes open to deny that there is, as never before, an attitude on the part of young folk which is best described as grossly thoughtless, rude, and utterly selfish.”

The Conduct of Young People, Hull Daily Mail
1925

 

[Towers]

Has there, I wonder, ever been a point in time where society as a whole have had such desperately low expectations of the police, courts and delivery of justice in general?

Street crime, e.g. muggings in murky side streets and the like, certainly seem to be something which has a ring of being from another time these days, but equally there weren’t yobs riding electric scooters about grabbing people’s mobile phones out of their hands back then. I do wonder what percentage of victims of various criminality simply don’t bother reporting these days, I suspect it’ll be a relatively small but still significant number.