London Bridge redevelopment

[transmanche]

It does get a bit boring when this happens with monotonous regularity

Just like using hackneyed "humour" such as 'Network Fail', 'DafT', 'Worst Great Western' and so on...

 

[Chrisgr31]

As others have suggested it doesn't appear to have gone quite as well this morning. Those on the mainline had it worse due to over running engineering works at Three Bridges. Mind you had there not been over-running engineering works there would London bridge have been even worse?

Due to "signalling" problems this morning all Southern services to and from London Bridge were subject to delays of 30 minutes or more and from Southerns twitter feed they would appear to be ongoing.

Must admit that yet again Southern have been let down by their ability to communicate problems. On my train that came up from Uckfield the first announcement the guard made about the dealys was when we were stationary at a redlight on the fast up at Honor Oak Park, and all he said was we were stationary due to a red light. It wasn't until we got as far as New Cross Gate he ave the reason. That might be understandable except I knew before I got on the train an hour earlier that there were delays of 30 minutes or more due to Southerns twitter feed. So the Guard should have known earlier.

What was also unclear from Southerns feed was whether the issue was ongoing. Southern were tweeting very little this morning in spite of the issues at London Bridge and Three Bridges.

This was made worse because the twitter user Southernsbiggestfan was offine due to being in hospital. Somehow or other this tweeter who I assume is just doing it in his own time, manages to tweet more information, and correct information faster than Southerns own staff manage.

An on-board announcement at East Croydon that there were ongoing issues
at London Bridge would have at least given a chance to consider changing to Victoria.

As regards the works at London Bridge we came in to the new platform 14. Several issues were noted: -

• Lack of platform width (presumably in part due to works on adjoining platform)
• The canopy being too high and insufficent overhang to offer rain protection
• Lots of passengers commented on the cattle holding pens at the end of the new platforms

Its not clear if there is going to be more glazing off the roof between platforms 14 and 15, part is glazed.

Its also a long walk to platform 6 if you are at the back of the train that comes in to these platforms, and certainly the platform appeared to be at capacity when a busy train disgorged on to it.

However wait to see if these issues are just related to this morning and I'll hope we'll come into platform 9 or 10 in future!

 

[RichardN]

The mad 8 minutes at East Croydon from 8:25 - 8:33 which see six non stop services depart for London Bridge is a bit of a challenge on a normal day.

 

[Chrisgr31]

Incidentially as they are rebuilding London Bridge why didn't they take the opportunity to make the platform level with the train doors or is that not a consistent height?

 

[bicbasher]

Platform 11 is out of use for the rest of the day due to power problems, which has led to cancellations, curtailments and even LOROL adding an additional 2tph between NXG and West Croydon.

http://www.southernrailway.com/southern/news/important-travel-advice-london-bridge-this-evening/

 

[Bald Rick]

Platform 11 is out of use for the rest of the day due to power problems, which has led to cancellations, curtailments and even LOROL adding an additional 2tph between NXG and West Croydon.

http://www.southernrailway.com/southern/news/important-travel-advice-london-bridge-this-evening/

Being fixed tonight. I would explain what went wrong but it would take too long.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Incidentially as they are rebuilding London Bridge why didn't they take the opportunity to make the platform level with the train doors or is that not a consistent height?

In one. Train doors aren't at a consistent height, and it causes problems for gauging.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As regards the works at London Bridge we came in to the new platform 14. Several issues were noted: -

• Lack of platform width (presumably in part due to works on adjoining platform)
• The canopy being too high and insufficent overhang to offer rain protection
• Lots of passengers commented on the cattle holding pens at the end of the new platforms

Its not clear if there is going to be more glazing off the roof between platforms 14 and 15, part is glazed.

Platforms are much narrower than when finished due to the hoarding.

Canopy is to the design insisted on by the planning authority. However when the platforms are at full width it will require a pretty special wind/rain combination to get through to the whole platform, especially if there is a train alongside. Note that the canopies cover the full length of the platform, unlike what went before.

The holding pens are temporary.

There is no glazing between the platforms. It is non structural detail, again to satisfy the planning conditions.

 

[tsr]

The overrun engineering possession at Balcombe was really sorted out just as the problems at London Bridge began to go into overdrive. Most early-morning commuters were firstly more concerned with the lack of FCC services from the Brighton area, and then secondly the issues when they headed in. Those heavily-delayed FCC services then weren't able to call at London Bridge at all due to the issues there & also a queue on the Up Fast stretching from Sydenham. Southern ended up with a lot of stock stuck there. I saw a good percentage of what ended up in limbo. Not pretty, and I wouldn't have liked to have been standing in a crammed vestibule for that time.

Naturally, the issues with the Southern services rapidly made everything via Norwood Junction and East Croydon go into meltdown, and I think passengers' frustration was justified - it became hard for staff with access to numerous information systems to even track trains, let alone give estimates, due to stock displacement and reversals. Sadly, the information given out to station staff about plans to terminate & start short - as well as divert - trains did seem to be very sketchy. I do know for a fact that some station-based employees were not provided with an overview of the contingency plan for closures of various parts of London Bridge, which, although the first few trains ran OK, could quite possibly have proved handy, rather than stacking everything up - especially because there should have been dispatchers on standby to deal with trains terminated short, and there were agency people ready to turn round trains South of London Bridge. And on top of all this, management had to be diverted to Brockley due to major overcrowding which threatened to spill on the line.

I agree that the reasons were complex, but I think the London Bridge issues would be best described as a broken rail and track circuit system failures. Once it was only Platform 11 which was closed, service recovery was quite good, but it was really chaotic before then. Of course, the causes were considerably more unhelpful than just that one sentence could make out!

 

[SimonS]

Either way the congratulatory comments about "planned meticulously" and "an excellent command and control structure" were a tad premature then?

 

[Bald Rick]

Either way the congratulatory comments about "planned meticulously" and "an excellent command and control structure" were a tad premature then?

I was talking about the Friday closure. Nevertheless the arrangements for dealing with a failure post possession worked well, as everyone was in the right place. It is unfortunate that the nature of the failure was such that it was extremely disruptive.

 

[87015]

I was talking about the Friday closure. Nevertheless the arrangements for dealing with a failure post possession worked well, as everyone was in the right place. It is unfortunate that the nature of the failure was such that it was extremely disruptive.

Shame that meticulous planning didn't cover the non-compliant withdrawal of last journey times on the Friday via South Bermondsey and complete disinterest in responsibilities to get people home though. Still taxis did OK out of it no doubt.

New platforms are currently very narrow, shall see if it is better or worse than the five minutes it was taking to get off the back coach in Plat 13 and clear the barriers, I fear two trains arriving on 14/15 at similar times will be even worse...

 

[SimonS]

I was talking about the Friday closure. Nevertheless the arrangements for dealing with a failure post possession worked well, as everyone was in the right place. It is unfortunate that the nature of the failure was such that it was extremely disruptive.

Maybe but I doubt most paying customers are interested in the "arrangements for dealing with a failure post possession".

All they see is that in two places (Balcombe and London Bridge) services slowed to a standstill as the the job done wasn't done on time.

 

[Chrisgr31]

Various answers to my comments

Thanks for the answers, it will be good to see the finished station in a few years time. In the meantime I'll be grateful our office is soon moving to the City and I'll be walking from London Bridge rather than changing to Charing Cross.

 

[Deepgreen]

I boarded a train at Coulsdon South, shortly after we had been told via the station p.a. that it would terminate at East Croydon. However, despite the driver asking the conductor to contact him over the train p.a., not a single word was said on board about the termination at East Croydon, even when we came to stand there and the doors opened! Passengers clustered round the doors trying to find out what was going on, when the conductor MUST have known but decided not to bother telling us. What a shambles.
I complained to Southern and got a ridiculous e-mail back on the same day, which apologised for the delay in replying! It was just a generic stock response, which was totally useless. So I e-mailed Chris Burchell (Southern MD) and got a proper response which actually dealt with the specific incident.
It's almost impossible to get any form of useful response to complaints or observations from the TOCs - they are either completely bland generic stock answers which miss the specific point(s) of the complaint or are illiterate and inaccurate. Those of us who have knowledge of railway operations can see through these, but for 'ordinary' passengers, what hope is there?

 

[DY444]

I agree that the reasons were complex, but I think the London Bridge issues would be best described as a broken rail and track circuit system failures. Once it was only Platform 11 which was closed, service recovery was quite good, but it was really chaotic before then. Of course, the causes were considerably more unhelpful than just that one sentence could make out!

The story doing the rounds at our place is that somehow during the possession the traction bonding got screwed up. The result being that when traffic started a bonding cable was subjected to a massive overload current with consequent pyrotechnics and various things melting including part of one of the rails in platform 11. Somebody will no doubt be in for tea no biscuits if it's true

 

[Bald Rick]

The story doing the rounds at our place is that somehow during the possession the traction bonding got screwed up. The result being that when traffic started a bonding cable was subjected to a massive overload current with consequent pyrotechnics and various things melting including part of one of the rails in platform 11. Somebody will no doubt be in for tea no biscuits if it's true

It was a bonding issue, but wasn't a 'screw up' as such. Nevertheless it felt like it. At least the tea was nice.

 

[IrishDave]

An interesting post on London Reconnections about the whole London Bridge works, specifically including a few paragraphs on what went wrong on Monday (my emphasis):

The engineering work continued over the weekend and was completed on time on Monday morning shortly before start of service and handed over for train operation. There were a few planned cancellations just before the peak period but it was intended to a run more or less full service on that Monday morning. At around 06.30 a.m it all started to go horribly wrong with a major power problem affecting the terminating platforms. Four platforms were brought back into use relatively quickly but being two platforms short caused major disruption. This was of course made much worse by there being no warning of this unplanned event, with too many packed trains already approaching London Bridge.

The problem was discovered to be due to traction bonding issues. It appeared that this was not recognised as a risk factor but the removal of various sets of points meant that the proper functioning of the previously present infrastructure was now crucial and found to be inadequate for the job. Network Rail were able to restore platform 10 during the day but realised that platform 11 would still be out of use during the evening peak period. Because the lack of a platform in the evening peak was known about in advance the problem could be mitigated by pre-planned cancellations and one or two diversions to Victoria. A full service was not resumed until Tuesday morning when all the platforms that should have been in use were in use.

It is clear from the above problem that one of the severe issues that the Thameslink programme has is the lack of time to carry out major engineering works. Obviously in this case they did not have the opportunity to test it by running multiple trains before handing the site back to the operators. Network Rail have learnt their lesson about not assuming that the existing structure can be relied to function properly in the changed circumstances and will take this into account during future changes at London Bridge.

A question for the more technically knowledgeable: what exactly is traction bonding? Something to do with insulating the 750V DC third rail supply from track circuits and the rest of the signalling equipment?

 

[Bald Rick]

An interesting post on London Reconnections about the whole London Bridge works, specifically including a few paragraphs on what went wrong on Monday (my emphasis):



A question for the more technically knowledgeable: what exactly is traction bonding? Something to do with insulating the 750V DC third rail supply from track circuits and the rest of the signalling equipment?

Sort of. It is effectively providing an easy route for the return current.

 

[Stats]

The below presentation is really interesting and the best document I've seen detailing the project plan and, in particular from slides 80 onwards, to gain an understanding of how the track work changes at the various stages of the redevelopment.

http://www.infrarail.com/_downloads/presentations/IF14_Thameslink.pdf (7Mb)

 

[Bald Rick]

Well found. Some of those staged track layouts aren't 100% accurate, but close enough.

 

[Deepgreen]

Very interesting presentation. On a minor point, it contains yet more examples of NR's insistence on mis-spelling 'slew' - i.e. to shift track laterally - there are countless signs on structures around the network which state 'No track slue permitted', when the word is 'slew'. This document contains it spelt both ways!
Anyway - thanks for posting this.

 

[Olaf]

Very interesting presentation. On a minor point, it contains yet more examples of NR's insistence on mis-spelling 'slew' - i.e. to shift track laterally - there are countless signs on structures around the network which state 'No track slue permitted', when the word is 'slew'. This document contains it spelt both ways!
Anyway - thanks for posting this.

Slue is a valid alternative spelling.

 

[physics34]

http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/update/2014-08-28/more-disruption-for-rail-commuters/ A report from ITV london news on the redevelopment and some of the work carried out

 

[Cletus]

Received an email from Thameslink Programme today:-

Thank you for your patience over the last nine days as we rebuild London Bridge. We’ve worked around the clock to open up two new platforms at London Bridge and to replace the tracks into the station.

You will now be able to see the new station taking shape.

Please remember there will be changes to the station and to some Southern services from today, see details below:

Station changes
From today the layout of London Bridge station has changed:
New platforms 12 and 13 are now open for use.
Platforms 10 and 11 have been closed so that they can be rebuilt.
The footbridge is only accessible from platforms 1 to 8.
Platforms 9, 12 and 15 will be narrowed as we continue to work behind the hoarding and to protect you from the work site.

Along with updated station map:-

http://uhoun19qey9384ovv24t33c1.wpe...mail&utm_term=0_a91f493a33-4a0187aac7-3687369

 

[physics34]

The latest video from network rail on the London Bridge redevelopment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVFfxfwuXuM

 

[swt_passenger]

The latest video from network rail on the London Bridge redevelopment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVFfxfwuXuM

What is interesting about that video is how it reveals how much of the future Platform 11 and its adjacent track 'viaduct' they have already built - hidden behind the hoardings on P12, but plainly visible on the right hand side of the video (around 1m 24s).

Although being opened in three major phases, there are of course four new low level platform structures, so although the next opening is P10 and P11, the main work to be done over the next few months is mostly the single sided Platform 10.

In hindsight it all makes sense - when they originally opened the new P14 and P15, they were probably well on the way to completing P13 as well, as it is back to back with P14.

 

[physics34]

What is interesting about that video is how it reveals how much of the future Platform 11 and its adjacent track 'viaduct' they have already built - hidden behind the hoardings on P12, but plainly visible on the right hand side of the video (around 1m 24s).

Although being opened in three major phases, there are of course four new low level platform structures, so although the next opening is P10 and P11, the main work to be done over the next few months is mostly the single sided Platform 10.

In hindsight it all makes sense - when they originally opened the new P14 and P15, they were probably well on the way to completing P13 as well, as it is back to back with P14.

Ive had trouble explaining to people what work is actually taking place. Many people still believe just the platforms are being build and have no 'concept' or even an idea what is going on behind those hoardings......even with the artists impression of what the new concourse will look like.

This video though will help alot!

 

[FOH]

I actually butted into a conversation on my train this morning where two gents were mulling over the disappearing footbridge and decided the railway had put a replacement on the too difficult list. They were really surprised to hear there'll be a full size concourse below.

 

[ironstone11]

Readers may also be interested in this 3D 'fly through' of London Bridge released by Network Rail on Sep. 2 2014.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9bCI_ydpkI

 

[physics34]

Readers may also be interested in this 3D 'fly through' of London Bridge released by Network Rail on Sep. 2 2014.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9bCI_ydpkI

very nice

 

[Bald Rick]

In hindsight it all makes sense - when they originally opened the new P14 and P15, they were probably well on the way to completing P13 as well, as it is back to back with P14.

Indeed. P13 was all but finished from a platform Civils point of view before 14/15 opened, and indeed the main Civils work for about half of 11/12 was done.