London - Bicester - Banbury

[cjp]

I buy a super offpeak return London to Banbury (£16.50 with railcard) the ticket is marked "Any Permitted"
I usually break both my journey out and start short (?) at Bicester North -travelling from Marylebone and returning there.

Question 1
Does the amended 2 day validity apply to this ticket so I could go on to Banbury the next day?
Or with an overnight break even the third day?

Question 2
Could I travel to Bicester North via Reading and Banbury utilising the outward part to Banbury and then the return part to Bicester North the same day. If I do this may I, days later, continue back to London. If by any miracle an inspector checks my ticket between Banbury and Bicester and stamps it need I get it marked at Bicester that i broke my journey there rather than be faced with a problem days later when I conclude my journey? (I have been on some routes when the tickets have been checked and a date impressed or stamped on the ticket- not normally a problem as I going to my destination that that day and not using the ticket for a break of journey at an intermediate stop other than to change trains)

Question 3
Is a valid (return) route Bicester Town via Oxford and Reading either because of starting at Bicester or because of travelling from Banbury and cycling the short distance between the two Bicester stations?
I guess if the answer is yes then I would be curious to know if I could use outward part of such a super offpeak ticket to travel on the outward portion to Bicester Town via Oxford

If anyone is curious as to why I ask all this I will explain!

 

[yorkie]

Question 2
Could I travel to Bicester North via Reading and Banbury utilising the outward part to Banbury and then the return part to Bicester North the same day.

You may break your return journey at Bicester North, yes.

If I do this may I, days later, continue back to London. If by any miracle an inspector checks my ticket between Banbury and Bicester and stamps it need I get it marked at Bicester that i broke my journey there rather than be faced with a problem days later when I conclude my journey? (I have been on some routes when the tickets have been checked and a date impressed or stamped on the ticket- not normally a problem as I going to my destination that that day and not using the ticket for a break of journey at an intermediate stop other than to change trains)

The ticket is valid for break of journey at Bicester North. There is no need to inform the inspector of this, though you may do if you wish, but in my experience informing an inspector of your intention to break your journey makes absolutely no difference whatsoever.

(I have been on some routes when the tickets have been checked and a date impressed or stamped on the ticket- not normally a problem as I going to my destination that that day and not using the ticket for a break of journey at an intermediate stop other than to change trains)

It does not matter how they mark the ticket. The ticket is valid for break of journey and may be resumed when you choose, within the validity of the ticket.

I think you may be mistakenly under the impression that a journey has to be completed within one day, that is not the case.

 

[bb21]

Question 1
Does the amended 2 day validity apply to this ticket so I could go on to Banbury the next day?
Or with an overnight break even the third day?

The new "TWO DAYS" validity applies to Anytime Single tickets only, not (Super) Off-Peak tickets. You can continue into the second day if you cannot complete your journey on the first day, subject to the same time restrictions on the second day of travel.

Edit: I should have said earlier that the comments above refer to the outward portion of a return ticket only. The return portion, of course, is valid for one month.

Question 3
Is a valid (return) route Bicester Town via Oxford and Reading either because of starting at Bicester or because of travelling from Banbury and cycling the short distance between the two Bicester stations?
I guess if the answer is yes then I would be curious to know if I could use outward part of such a super offpeak ticket to travel on the outward portion to Bicester Town via Oxford

I do not believe you can use a London Terminals - Banbury ticket via Oxford and Bicester Town as that will not be a through train, or the shortest route, or a mapped route. There is no applicable easement either.

However if Banbury is not a compulsory station to visit, then a London Terminals - Oxford ticket is valid either via Reading or via a walk between the two Bicester stations as they're both shortest routes.

 

[Paul Kelly]

The new "TWO DAYS" validity applies to Anytime Single tickets only, not (Super) Off-Peak tickets. You can continue into the second day if you cannot complete your journey on the first day, subject to the same time restrictions on the second day of travel.

IMHO, in practice, this amounts to exactly the same thing (i.e. the outward portion of off-peak and super off-peak returns, together with super off-peak and off-peak singles, are now valid for two days), with the single proviso that the journey must be commenced on the first day. A valid reason for not being able to complete your journey on the first day can simply be that you do not wish to complete it on the first day.

 

[bb21]

IMHO, in practice, this amounts to exactly the same thing (i.e. the outward portion of off-peak and super off-peak returns, together with super off-peak and off-peak singles, are now valid for two days), with the single proviso that the journey must be commenced on the first day. A valid reason for not being able to complete your journey on the first day can simply be that you do not wish to complete it on the first day.

The difference is that under the new rules, the passenger loses the element of choice as to whether he/she wishes to finish the journey if it can possibly be made.

Whether in reality this is, or indeed, can, be enforced is another matter.

 

[General Zod]

There seems to be some ambiguity and confusion for me here. Could someone clarify the exact rules regarding "continuing a journey the next day if travel cannot be completed on day 1 ". Say , for example, you have a Weymouth to Kyle of Lochalsh Super Off Peak ( or Off Peak ) return. It is nigh on impossible to complete the journey in one day. If your travel plans dictate that your journey starts at 10.00 am at Weymouth and the furthest you can get on day 1 is Inverness, would the SSR / SVR be valid for the overnight stay in Inverness prior to continuing to Kyle the next morning ? Could you have your overnight stay at an earlier stop , e.g. York, Newcastle or Edinburgh instead of going all the way to Inverness ? You won't be able to reach Kyle on Day 1 so it shouldn't make any difference or do you have to get as close to your destination on Day 1 as is possible ?

 

[cjp]

Well!

I think I prefer your information to the the railway's answers even if it still confusing as their responses can be just a nonsense
(Try this and explain this:- booking online the fare from Oxford to Bicester Town is £1.60 with a 25 minute journey time. Yet from Oxford to Bicester North the quoted fare is £15 with a journey time of 52 minutes with the last part of the journey walking between Bicester Town and Bicester North! Which to my twisted mind is paying Chiltern £13 to go for a walk. I bet the computers price it via Banbury and then decide it is not the shortest route and do not adjust the fare just the route)

Anyway this is my understanding of the replies and info I have had to my questions.

Question 1
If I start my journey on the outward part of a a super offpeak ticket then notwithstanding what it says on the ticket I can split and finish my journey the next day and the ticket will still be valid.

This seem to agree with the earlier discussion here
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=60321
but I can expect to get grief from staff on the second day.

So what is the name of the rule or easement need I make them aware of if I am challenged?

Question 2
I may travel out to Bicester North via Reading and Banbury using both parts of the super off peak return.
Thanks Yorkie

Question 3
I cannot travel to from Bicester Town on the super offpeak return.

The only way to travel from to or from Bicester Town would be first to buy a ticket from or to Oxford either in advance or at the station (Oxford or Bicester Town) and not on the train travelling between Oxford and Bicester as there I would be travelling without a valid ticket and would get my knuckles rapped unless I had somehow got a Permit To Travel.

Thanks guys.

 

[barrykas]

If Banbury wasn't a factor, a return from London to Islip is valid via both Bicester North and Bicester Town.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[yorkie]

If your travel plans dictate that your journey starts at 10.00 am at Weymouth and the furthest you can get on day 1 is Inverness, would the SSR / SVR be valid for the overnight stay in Inverness prior to continuing to Kyle the next morning ? Could you have your overnight stay at an earlier stop , e.g. York, Newcastle or Edinburgh instead of going all the way to Inverness ? You won't be able to reach Kyle on Day 1 so it shouldn't make any difference or do you have to get as close to your destination on Day 1 as is possible ?

You can stay overnight at a place of your choice. This has been confirmed by ATOC. You are not compelled to spend the night in Inverness (or, if an earlier train was caught, Tain!) or any other location.

Well!

I think I prefer your information to the the railway's answers even if it still confusing as their responses can be just a nonsense
(Try this and explain this:- booking online the fare from Oxford to Bicester Town is £1.60 with a 25 minute journey time. Yet from Oxford to Bicester North the quoted fare is £15 with a journey time of 52 minutes with the last part of the journey walking between Bicester Town and Bicester North! Which to my twisted mind is paying Chiltern £13 to go for a walk. I bet the computers price it via Banbury and then decide it is not the shortest route and do not adjust the fare just the route)

What booking site is that? Also, to confuse matters even more, the price you quote to Bicester Town appears to be an Off Peak Day Return with a Railcard discount, but the price you quote to Bicester North appears to be an Anytime Day Single without a Railcard discount!

I do think this is an error though, but it is unclear which website(s) the error is on.

Question 2
I may travel out to Bicester North via Reading and Banbury using both parts of the super off peak return.
Thanks Yorkie

No problem. Yes, you can commence your return journey from Banbury to London immediately on completion of your outward journey and break your return journey at Bicester North.Both routes are valid.

Question 3
I cannot travel to from Bicester Town on the super offpeak return.

The only way to travel from to or from Bicester Town would be first to buy a ticket from or to Oxford either in advance or at the station (Oxford or Bicester Town) and not on the train travelling between Oxford and Bicester as there I would be travelling without a valid ticket and would get my knuckles rapped unless I had somehow got a Permit To Travel.

Thanks guys.

If you want to return via Bicester Town ([stn]BIT[/stn]) I would do the following:

* Approach the guard/ticket inspector (if there is one; I am unsure if this route is Driver Only Operation or not) before departure, show your ticket and ask if travel on the train is permitted. If permission is refused, you can either walk back to Bicester North or you can pay the fare of £2.30 (or £1.50 if a Railcard is held) for a [stn]BIT[/stn] - Oxford single.

According to the NRES page for [stn]BIT[/stn] there are no ticket machines at the station and there is no ticket office, this is consistent with what I recall on my last visit just over a year ago. Therefore, any ticket that needs to be purchased can be bought on board the train, or if there is no-one on board the train selling tickets, at the first opportunity (which is usually your destination but can be an intermediate station depending on interchange times, or if you break your journey).

 

[cjp]

Y

What booking site is that? Also, to confuse matters even more, the price you quote to Bicester Town appears to be an Off Peak Day Return with a Railcard discount, but the price you quote to Bicester North appears to be an Anytime Day Single without a Railcard discount!

I do think this is an error though, but it is unclear which website(s) the error is on.

Chiltern's
http://tickets.chilternrailways.co.uk

and it still doing it!

 

[yorkie]

I've looked into this. It is a problem on websites that use the 'WebTIS' booking engine developed by the infamous IT company called Atos. They are well-known for having many errors.

The £15 fare from Oxford to Bicester North is of course intended to allow travel via Banbury, but the WebTIS-based sites do not allow travel via Banbury and only allow travel via Bicester Town, and therefore are charging a huge premium for a walk!

This problem does not occur with Thetrainline-based sites (for example, FGW).

I suggest you contact Chiltern Railways about this problem.

 

[barrykas]

The £15 fare from Oxford to Bicester North is of course intended to allow travel via Banbury, but the WebTIS-based sites do not allow travel via Banbury and only allow travel via Bicester Town, and therefore are charging a huge premium for a walk!

Looks like WebTIS is failing to apply Routeing Guide easement 700028:

Customers travelling from Bicester North to Oxford and beyond, may travel via Banbury. This easement applies in both directions.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[cjp]

If Banbury wasn't a factor, a return from London to Islip is valid via both Bicester North and Bicester Town.

Cheers,

Barry

Thank you

 

[route:oxford]

If Banbury wasn't a factor, a return from London to Islip is valid via both Bicester North and Bicester Town.

Cheers,

Barry

That's potential useful...

My company obliges me to purchase tickets in excess of £30 via a travel agent. This is really annoying as there is little difference timewise between me travelling via Oxford or Haddenham and means I cannot choose my route in the morning after comparing service operations.

If I purchase an Anytime ticket from Islip to "London", could I then choose to travel via First or Chiltern starting at Ox or Haddenham as I see fit?

 

[yorkie]

If I purchase an Anytime ticket from Islip to "London", could I then choose to travel via First or Chiltern starting at Ox or Haddenham as I see fit?

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/anytime.html

You can buy Anytime tickets any time before you travel and you can use your ticket to travel on any train. With an Anytime ticket you can also break your journey at stations along the route of travel.

Break of journey is always allowed, so starting (or finishing) 'short' is always permitted, for Anytime tickets.

 

[cjp]

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/anytime.html

I followed your link and explored what National Rail Enquiries said for offpeak tickets

"For Off-Peak Return tickets, outward journeys must be made on the date shown on the ticket and up to 04:29 the following morning; return journeys must be made within one calendar month and up to 04:29 the morning following the last day of validity."

So back to the drawing board on Question 1 then?

 

[Paul Kelly]

The information there is incomplete. If you are breaking your journey, validity continues into the second day. See the more detailed explanation from ATOC linked in this post.

 

[cjp]

The information there is incomplete. If you are breaking your journey, validity continues into the second day. See the more detailed explanation from ATOC linked in this post.

Phew!
So you guys are right.
I just do not understand why the National Rail web site does not give the full rule about usage. Why have a benefit and discourage people from using that benefit by keeping it secret?

“My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look upon my works, ye Mighty, and despair!”
Shelly

 

[Paul Kelly]

Who knows? It could be they think they are keeping it "SIMPLE" (one of their favourite words) by not mentioning break of journey, because they assume not many people want to break their journey. But if more people knew they could break their journey, and the flexibility it allows, more people might do it!

Of course this might often save them money, so a more cynical view would be that the TOCs want people to buy more expensive tickets than they need to. I'm sure they would deny that charge, though.