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Log your bus dwell times here

johncrossley

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30 Mar 2021
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London
In this thread, please log your bus dwell times here. I suggest measuring with a stopwatch (for example using an app on your phone) the time between the bus coming to a complete stop and the bus moving again. It would be good if you could do this for several stops during a journey.

Other things to mention include:

Operator
Route number
Type of vehicle
Did it have more than one door?
Number of boarders
Number of alighters
Was there overcrowding on the bus?

and anything else you think might be relevant.
 
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Cesarcollie

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5 Jun 2016
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In this thread, please log your bus dwell times here. I suggest measuring with a stopwatch (for example using an app on your phone) the time between the bus coming to a complete stop and the bus moving again. It would be good if you could do this for several stops during a journey.

Other things to mention include:

Operator
Route number
Type of vehicle
Did it have more than one door?
Number of boarders
Number of alighters
Was there overcrowding on the bus?

and anything else you think might be relevant.

Why?
 

Cesarcollie

Member
Joined
5 Jun 2016
Messages
822
There has long been a debate about dwell times on this forum so I thought it would actually be good to see some actual data on it.

Ah right. Surely not very scientific though. How do you factor in the time it takes for a car to give way so the bus can pull out into busy traffic? And a route with a high proportion of ENCTS passholders who may be slower (or faster!) than someone paying? Etc
 

johncrossley

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London
Ah right. Surely not very scientific though. How do you factor in the time it takes for a car to give way so the bus can pull out into busy traffic? And a route with a high proportion of ENCTS passholders who may be slower (or faster!) than someone paying? Etc

These are the sorts of things that people can say in their posts. Hopefully we get a good sample so the anomalies will even themselves out.
 

Ken X

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29 Nov 2021
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Location
Horsham
Purely as an outsider I am wondering as to the usefulness of said data. If a bus starts and finishes its route on time then intermediate dwell times would seem to be irrelevant or meaningless.

I am an infrequent user of buses but when I last used one in Maidenhead , two stops at least, were marked as adjustment stops where the bus may pause to regain it's schedule.

The useful data would be how late a bus reaches the end of its route compared to the timetable and if this was a regular occurrence. Your could then drill down to determine where on the route delays are generated .
 

Ballyheigue

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11 Sep 2025
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Leeds
If only the government would do such research to determine how passengers are delaying bus services over the course of a year. Buses seemed a hell of a lot quicker just a handful of years ago, now they're beyond tedious lol.
 

The exile

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If only the government would do such research to determine how passengers are delaying bus services over the course of a year. Buses seemed a hell of a lot quicker just a handful of years ago, now they're beyond tedious lol.
In the words of (ISTR) United Counties many years ago “If the bus stopped to pick up passengers it would disrupt the timetable”.
 

py_megapixel

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Northern England
If a bus starts and finishes its route on time then intermediate dwell times would seem to be irrelevant or meaningless.
It is important to consider not only whether the bus starts and finishes its route on time, but also whether the timetable is any good to begin with.

If the timetable is excessively padded to allow for boarding/alighting taking a long time, then that increases operating costs while driving away passengers, which is obviously not a good combination.
 

RT4038

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22 Feb 2014
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These are the sorts of things that people can say in their posts. Hopefully we get a good sample so the anomalies will even themselves out.

I am guessing that you want to know how long the dwell time to board/alight passengers is at each stop on a journey? Any other time taken (for example the driver referring to their running card, or picking up a dropped pen, or waiting for scheduled departure time) is to be discounted. Presumably if any of these occur you want an estimation of when the bus would have set off (when the passengers have got to their seat)?
To make any sense of the information, you are asking for the number of passengers alighting and boarding at each stop. Presumably you want to know, for each stop, how many boarders used cash, contactless card / phone / wristwatch or how many showed the driver a pass? But presumably also if they boarded/alighted in a wheelchair or with two suitcases or a recalcitrant dog or child or any other reason to affect the dwell time but nothing to do with fare collection?

Quite a tall order, with lots of variables, but I'll give it a go on my bus commute tomorrow. I suspect you'll need rather a lot of data to be able to draw any credible conclusions.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Well @RT4038... I embraced the empirical approach of the OP, and did indeed have a check on my commute yesterday. For reference, the journeys were on service 9 from Brislington P&R to Temple Meads operated by Stagecoach using standard e400mmcs.

Journey in - 0756 ex Briz

The bus was already on the stand at the P&R and 30 passengers were already on board as the tracking indicates boarding began at 0748. There were 20 passengers in front of me, queuing. On average, each of those 20 fares took 3.5 seconds - it was about 70 seconds to load. Most fares were card payments with people getting £3.50 returns to town but some had Megariders on their phones as they didn't receive a physical ticket. It was all very quick indicating that many were regular (not daily except the Megarider) passengers. We left at 0756 on time and a mix of lighter traffic and extensive bus priority saw us arrive 1 min earlier at Temple Meads. Exiting was also straightforward though their were no people looking to board.

Observations: fewer mobile tickets reflecting the fact that it's cheaper to get a return if you don't have a four or five day commute. That may have slowed things slightly but there were no ENCTS passes either and it was quick.

Journey back - 1626 ex Temple Meads

I was outside Temple Meads for 1615 and casually waited and watched the various First buses trundling past to Broomhill, Stockwood, Bath etc. At 16:26, my 9 was 3 mins away. At 16:29, it was 2 mins away. It actually arrived at 16:35. Five people exited taking 17 seconds. 16 got on again with an average dwell time of 3.5 seconds but with the 17 second hinderance, it was 4.5 seconds per person.

17 seconds is an encumbrance but nothing in comparison with a) the fact it was 9 minutes late and had delayed in what had become almost standard rush hour traffic and b) it was a full standing load and I actually couldn't board!

Instead, I paid £3 to get an X39 to Bath Road and ran through torrential rain to my car! That was similarly easy for boarding except when a group of 13 yr olds went to get on and Sienna (or "Siennuurrrr!!!" as it was pronounced by her friends) was slow in getting her stuff together. Most people boarding were doing m-tickets or TOTO (as it is a First bus). It was actually a dual door machine and the exit doors did help at the Brislington village stop where there was some counter flow of passengers (though the TOTO validator was out of use). However, we did have to fight to reach that stop and up the top of Brislington and that delayed us more than anything.

So my experience and caveated with it's just two journeys (but I do it fairly often and it's broadly typical)... off bus ticketing is probably quicker but I saw no particular issue with the speed of the Vix machine in processing cards even with paper tickets being issued. Dwell times were not egregious. What really screwed things was the traffic. There are several pinchpoints on the A4 and just getting vehicles through the city centre would help no end, perhaps by re-routeing the 9 to head by Redcliffe Way rather than battling along Temple Way. The point is that when halving the dwell time saves seconds, a couple of mins at most. A badly parked car or poorly designed junction blows that out of the water!
 

RT4038

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I did an analysis on my commute journey last Tuesday 28th July (as attached).

On the a.m. journey the driver was fastidious in waiting for all passengers to have got to their seat (not necessarily sat down), whereas in the p.m. those judged as more able bodied by the driver had to move down the aisle as the bus fairly gently pulled away. Where in the bus the passengers went to sit down, and whether they got up before the bus stopped, or once the bus had stopped materially affected the times. I did not attempt to separate ticket buying time and moving to seat time. On the p.m. journey the driver was more fastidious at checking passes and asking for destination if appropriate - indeed caught one passenger intending to override and demanded the fare (paid by card) for the additional journey. Where the bus did not immediately depart on boarding the pax, I have estimated the number of seconds when the driver would have been able to if so desired. Dwell time was 5.3% and 7.8% of net total journey. The discrepancy of boarding/alighting pax on the a.m. is because Leamington town centre is a terminal loop on this service. Of note is that only one passenger paid cash [ pays cash every day!]. Only one phone payment did not work the first time, but did the second time it was presented. Unsure whether this was phone related or driver set up error. To get a real picture this exercise would need repeating many times to start working up an average - individual passenger behaviour can have quite an effect. This was a single deck, one door vehicle. There were few occasions where passengers both boarded and alighted at the same stop, and the number of pax involved were small.

They are Stagecoach buses - 'pass' indicates tickets which the driver only has to look at without interaction with the ticket machine, whereas card is either bank card or ENCTS/Disabled ticket requiring being read by the machine (as does 'phone')

A set of temporary traffic lights delayed the bus in both directions in Radford Semele; a temporary road closure in Rugby extended the p.m. finishing time also.
 

Attachments

  • 28.7.26 Dwell time .xlsx
    10.8 KB · Views: 17
Last edited:

johncrossley

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I have finally remembered to log some of my dwell times (about time given it was my idea!) but only at quiet times so far. Maybe the best thing to do is the stand at busy town/city centre bus stops for half an hour or so, preferably not at terminus locations.

Route 433 Addington Village to East Croydon today approximately 0730. Started surveying half way through journey. Single deck two door Wright GB Kite Electroliner LV25WYC
1 on 1 off 10 seconds
0 on 1 off 9 seconds
3 on 0 off 15 seconds
2 on 0 off 10 seconds
1 on 0 9 seconds


Route SL7 West Croydon to Heathrow Central today approximately 0820. Double deck single door BYD BD11 LF26KUK
(this is single door because luggage space is provided as it goes to Heathrow)
(I observed this at East Croydon without boarding the bus.)

13 on 0 off 40 seconds, some passengers with suitcases.


Route 466 Caterham on the Hill to Addington Village (I boarded at East Croydon) today about 1230. Double deck two door BYD BD11 LF75ORV

0 on 2 off 14 seconds
0 on 1 off 10 seconds
1 on 0 off 9 seconds
0 on 1 off 10 seconds
2 on 0 off 22 seconds
0 on 1 off 10 seconds

Route 64 New Addington to Thornton Heath (I boarded at Addington Village and travelled 2 stops) today about 1245. Double deck two door Wright StreetDeck Electroliner LV74CEO

5 on 5 off 24 seconds
 
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I wonder that if dwell times are shorter in scotland due to the fact most users dont need to buy tickets and simply just scan there pass?
 

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