Locos fitted with CSRs

[westcoaster]

Was at work today and got thinking, about the above title?

Is there any loco's, that have these fitted or had them fitted but removed?
ive heard of NSE class 47's having them, and im sure class 73's have them, but is there any others that people may know off?
Thanks.

90's NXEA?
73's GBRF?
92's EWS/DB?

 

[adamp]

For those who dont know what csr's are... what are they?

 

[westcoaster]

Sorry forgot to put that down

CSR= Cab Secure Radio

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cab_Secure_Radio

 

[73110]

All the ones that I have driven have had the old 'ship-to-shore' radios on them. You can use them like a phone.

I am not sure about the newer engines like the 66's but most that I have driven (33, 37, 47, 56, 73) did not have CSR radios, like what you have in your 319, in them.

They are fitted with NRN (National Rail Network) radios in them. You have areas that you put into the radio, have a look next time you go into the quarry tunnel because just before that there is a diamond with a number in it, that is for the NRN radio area.

 

[westcoaster]

All the ones that I have driven have had the old 'ship-to-shore' radios on them. You can use them like a phone.

I am not sure about the newer engines like the 66's but most that I have driven (33, 37, 47, 56, 73) did not have CSR radios, like what you have in your 319, in them.

They are fitted with NRN (National Rail Network) radios in them. You have areas that you put into the radio, have a look next time you go into the quarry tunnel because just before that there is a diamond with a number in it, that is for the NRN radio area.

cheers, ive seen the diamond on the quarries alreday knew about them, fare enough i just thought there had been some with csr's.

found some

57006 has one http://michael-scarfe.fotopic.net/p57193699.html

73208 also http://anoraksia.ukgeeks.co.uk/p5919667.html
if i find more ill post here.

 

[73110]

The 73 pic is the 57 link!!!

Never driven a 73 with a CSR in it, these must be new additions or something.

Wasn't 73208 an ex Gatwick Express? That could explain if there is one in there although (for mainline passenger running) I have only driven one of the Gatwicks (73201 Broadlands on a VSOE) I can't remember if there was a CSR in there.

 

[westcoaster]

link changed, also that 57 used to be one of the NSE 47/7's working out of Liv st / paddington/waterloo

 

[GB]

66's aren't fitted with CSR, however they are fitted with NRN. Any loco, DMU or EMU must either be fitted with CSR or NRN (or portable NRN if required)

Could be wrong, but I dont think the NXs 90's are fitted with CSR either.

 

[73110]

I think there are more without CSR radios than with. I don't think HST's have CSR either as I have seen quite a few Midland Mainline drivers standing talking to SPT's.

 

[O L Leigh]

CSR is more normally associated with DOO passenger operation, to the extent that you often hear signallers referring to it as "the DOO". As a consequence I would not have imagined ANY loco would have been fitted with CSR on the basis that LHCS cannot be worked as DOO.

That was until I saw the linked pics.

However, it does still raise a question. My understanding was that the standard radio equipment for locos would be NRN as CSR coverage is limited. Therefore, if, as it would appear, 57006 and 73208 do indeed have CSR (and I can confirm that these do at least appear to be CSR sets), where's the NRN set...?

O L Leigh

 

[TDK]

CSR is more normally associated with DOO passenger operation, to the extent that you often hear signallers referring to it as "the DOO". As a consequence I would not have imagined ANY loco would have been fitted with CSR on the basis that LHCS cannot be worked as DOO.

That was until I saw the linked pics.

However, it does still raise a question. My understanding was that the standard radio equipment for locos would be NRN as CSR coverage is limited. Therefore, if, as it would appear, 57006 and 73208 do indeed have CSR (and I can confirm that these do at least appear to be CSR sets), where's the NRN set...?

O L Leigh

As you say the CSR was introduced for DOO usage so in my experience the only trains to have had them installed are DOO operated trains such as the southern EMU's and the Chiltern 166/168's there is not rule in place that insists all trains travelling over a route equipped with CSR must have it installed as freight and engine and stock do not need it when on such routes.

 

[First class]

Merseyrail use CSR in 507/508 units.

 

[kestrel]

They are both NRN, CSR only required for DOO operated trains which 57/0's and 73's did not operate, the radios look similar but they are different

Doubt very much if ANY locomotives have CSR they are not required as loco hauled are guard operatednot DOO.

 

[westcoaster]

They are both NRN, CSR only required for DOO operated trains which 57/0's and 73's did not operate, the radios look similar but they are different

Doubt very much if ANY locomotives have CSR they are not required as loco hauled are guard operatednot DOO.

i understand about the CSR only being for DOO, but there are loads of routes that have CSR but are not DOO, Euston-rugby, GEML,SWML, as i understud things CSR covers the old NSE area (not all routes) plus Glasgow and Merseyrail areas.

 

[GB]

CSR was supposed to replace the NRN on the whole network and become the single standard of communication, which is probably why there are CSR areas on non DOO lines.

As for the GEML, most of it is DOO.

 

[O L Leigh]

...and where the GEML isn't DOO there is no CSR coverage.

O L Leigh

 

[GB]

...and where the GEML isn't DOO there is no CSR coverage.

O L Leigh

Very true

 

[driver9000]

As someone else (Kestral?) said both the radios in those linked photos are NRN sets which all mainline locomotives and MUs carry. both CSR and NRN are to be replaced in 2012 by GSM-R.

 

[ungreat]

All the FCC units we have (313,317,321,365) are fitted with CSR. A few 365's also had NRN fitted too,in anticipation of gaining Doncaster-KX work in the late 90's which didn't materialise in the end.Some of them still have the NRN sets in place too,but they don't work.

 

[Juniper Driver]

On a sort of reverse thread thingy I believe there is a 444 being fitted with NRN.

444028?

Dunno why though.SWT 159/8's have both.

 

[Hampshire Unit]

Like Driver9000 said all radio systems are in the process of being replaced by GSM-R. Sadly this system appears to be a lot inferior to CSR. Network rail is being forced to “Give Up” the frequency’s that CSR use so have opted for GSM-R as it is a great improvement to NTN system. GSM-R has already been fitted to some Signalling locations but is currently just being used as a replacement to the IVRS. In the South (Wessex and Southern) area 95% of passenger services are fitted with CSR and should it become defective the stock needs to come out of service at the first convenient point.

 

[captainbigun]

Network Rail is only being forced to give up the NRN frequencies around London and the south due to the Olympics. Areas signalled from Rugby and Stoke are already GSM-R, portable units being provided where needed. So the GSM-R requirement only extends to vehicles that will operate in the affected areas. Where a vehicle will operate in both NRN and GSM-R areas both facilities have to be provided, be it through a mobile device if needs be.

 

[Hampshire Unit]

I don’t know about the NRN frequencies in the London area as that will be a local Issue. But the licence for all CSR frequencies has been given an expiry date do to the Police expanding there system. Network Rail’s plan is for GSM-R to replace all in cab Radio systems. I am guessing that both Rugby and Stoke signalling area’s both work with axle counters and not Track circuits? Part of the risk assessment of installing axle counters deemed that all trains within the area MUST have a working radio system capable of sending emergency calls to the signaller. Because of this IVS was introduced to the re-signalling of both Havant and Bournemouth. This has now been superseded by the GSM-R system in preparation for the removal of CSR and NTN. We have been told during our GSM-R training that everything will be fitted with GSM-R and should it fail the stock or loco will be taken immediately out of service as it currently is within axle counter areas.

 

[captainbigun]

The police expansion is directly related to the security requirements for the Olympics.

Yes you're correct regarding Stoke and Rugby, both are (the sometimes troublesome) axle counter areas.

Any vehicle with a failed GSM-R will be failed, it also interfaces with the DSD, hence it will become a safety critical item.

 

[O L Leigh]

Any vehicle with a failed GSM-R will be failed, it also interfaces with the DSD, hence it will become a safety critical item.

That's not new. It's exactly the same with CSR now, as I suspect it is with NRN also.

O L Leigh

 

[jopsuk]

That's not new. It's exactly the same with CSR now, as I suspect it is with NRN also.

O L Leigh

a failed NRN can be replaced by a portable set- last year, on a Highland Chieftan northbound, we were stopped at Darlington (not a booked stop) to wait whilst a portable set was brought from Newcastle by a southbound service.

 

[33056]

Going back to the original post, the only locos I know of that are (or were) fitted with CSR are the class 92s. They certainly used to be able to set up the radio on the southern part of the WCML and might still do so, will have to make some enquiries as to the current situation.

 

[Juniper Driver]

On a sort of reverse thread thingy I believe there is a 444 being fitted with NRN.

444028?

Dunno why though.SWT 159/8's have both.

I got that wrong,it's a new sort of CSR but not NRN.

 

[vitesse]

Class 378's have CSR, NRN and GSM-R radios, the ELL core section will have GSM-R coverage and the rest of the route is CSR, and the North London line is all on NRN.

 

[chuffchuff]

The 92's have got ITR International Train Radio, which works
here. in the tunnel and most of Europe