Loco Projects that fell through?

[GM228]

Just starting a new thread about proposed loco projects or ideas which never happened and I'll start by asking what happened to the proposed re-use of the class 86 by Colas last year and also why the UKLS class 56s arn't now been used by Freightliner?

Apologies if already discussed elsewhere!

GM228

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Welcome to the forum!

This link might be of interest, with the usual caveats regarding Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_Rail_unbuilt_locomotive_classes

 

[GM228]

Welcome to the forum!

This link might be of interest, with the usual caveats regarding Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_Rail_unbuilt_locomotive_classes

Thanks for the reply, interesting stuff there but more interested in projects using existing stock that fell through and why such as Colas's 86701 and the 56s for Freightliner and why so much effort went into these projects only for them to not really get off the ground.

GM228

 

[PHILIPE]

APT (Advanced Passenger Train)

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Thanks for the reply, interesting stuff there but more interested in projects using existing stock that fell through and why such as Colas's 86701 and the 56s for Freightliner and why so much effort went into these projects only for them to not really get off the ground.

GM228

No problem. There was the VXC "Challenger" project that proposed using re-engined HSTs in 2+5 formations. This of course never got off the ground, but all HST power cars were eventually re-engined a few years later anyway. Someone (can't remember who) purchased the two disused 151 units with the intention of making them available for spot-hire. They were moved to LNWR Crewe for refurbishment but unfortunately were stored in the open and suffered severe vandalism, which resulted in them being sent for scrap.

 

[GM228]

No problem. There was the VXC "Challenger" project that proposed using re-engined HSTs in 2+5 formations. This of course never got off the ground, but all HST power cars were eventually re-engined a few years later anyway. Someone (can't remember who) purchased the two disused 151 units with the intention of making them available for spot-hire. They were moved to LNWR Crewe for refurbishment but unfortunately were stored in the open and suffered severe vandalism, which resulted in them being sent for scrap.

Add them to the list of the "they should of been, but weren't saved" items!

GM228

 

[D365]

Someone (can't remember who) purchased the two disused 151 units with the intention of making them available for spot-hire. They were moved to LNWR Crewe for refurbishment but unfortunately were stored in the open and suffered severe vandalism, which resulted in them being sent for scrap.

Endeavour Rail purchased the two Class 151 units, it was intended to have Pete Waterman's LNWR (Crewe) complete a refurbishment. Each was trashed and scrapped on-site come 2004.

As was mentioned here very recently.

 

[Bungle965]

Intercity 250

 

[dk1]

No problem. There was the VXC "Challenger" project that proposed using re-engined HSTs in 2+5 formations. This of course never got off the ground, but all HST power cars were eventually re-engined a few years later anyway. Someone (can't remember who) purchased the two disused 151 units with the intention of making them available for spot-hire. They were moved to LNWR Crewe for refurbishment but unfortunately were stored in the open and suffered severe vandalism, which resulted in them being sent for scrap.

& about to take place in a similar form with 27 sets for Abellio Scotrail. Who says history doesn't repeat itself?

 

[Ash Bridge]

I have a recollection of BR possibly during the late 80s or early 90s looking into configuring a batch of Class 56 locomotives for use on IC Cross Country services to replace the Class 47s. Fitting ETS and bogie modifications being mentioned, obviously it came to nothing, does anyone else remember this or have any more info?

 

[physics34]

going back a few years i was always fascinated by locos 10000 and 10001!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have a recollection of BR possibly during the late 80s or early 90s looking into configuring a batch of Class 56 locomotives for use on IC Cross Country services to replace the Class 47s. Fitting ETS and bogie modifications being mentioned, obviously it came to nothing, does anyone else remember this or have any more info?

i get the feeling that the 56s had a few years left in them yet and were scrapped rather early. A big shame!

 

[Ash Bridge]

going back a few years i was always fascinated by locos 10000 and 10001!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


i get the feeling that the 56s had a few years left in them yet and were scrapped rather early. A big shame!

Yes, I agree there on both points, would add the SR trio of 1-Co-Co-1s also, just a little before my time sadly.

 

[physics34]

Yes, I agree there on both points, would add the SR trio of 1-Co-Co-1s also, just a little before my time sadly.

i can see them in my head but i can remember the numbers. Yeah classics. Id have loved to be around at that time.

 

[Polarbear]

Not a loco, but there were several suggestions for the Blue Pullman sets after their withdrawal in 1973. They could have been very useful as charter trains for example & there was talk of this at the time. Of course, all the sets were eventually scrapped.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Not a loco, but there were several suggestions for the Blue Pullman sets after their withdrawal in 1973. They could have been very useful as charter trains for example & there was talk of this at the time. Of course, all the sets were eventually scrapped.

With the recent "phoenix" projects such as Tornado and the Baby Deltic cut'n'shut, it wouldn't surprise me to see a similar project to build a new Blue Pullman set. I'm not sure it'd be a success though...

 

[Strathclyder]

Does Bulleid's fabled Leader Class qualify for this thread?

physics34: Would the locos you are referring to be numbered 10201, 10202 & 10203? All withdrawn by 1963 and all scrapped at Cashmore’s of Great Bridge in 1968.

 

[theageofthetra]

How about the emu that was a modern body on an old CEP/CIG (?) Underframe? Think it may have been called Networker Classic. Also wasn't another slam door emu given power doors as an experiment? I still think the still born IC 250 is the finest piece of BR design that never happened.

 

[RobShipway]

If we are moving on to multiple units from Loco's, then you have Class 210 and Class 457.

 

[physics34]

How about the emu that was a modern body on an old CEP/CIG (?) Underframe? Think it may have been called Networker Classic. Also wasn't another slam door emu given power doors as an experiment? I still think the still born IC 250 is the finest piece of BR design that never happened.

being picky but it was a VEP

It couldve been a goer cos all that was required at the time was a modification to stop underframes overriding such as in the clapham disaster. Then it was just thought its best to just order totally new stock. Probably the right decision was made.

I dont remember a slammer getting sliding doors but i do remember a 455 getting plug doors on one of its coaches.

 

[Western Lord]

The super Deltic, two 2000 to 2300bhp engines in a class 50 shell. The super Western, two 2000bhp Maybach MD870s.

 

[Ash Bridge]

The super Deltic, two 2000 to 2300bhp engines in a class 50 shell. The super Western, two 2000bhp Maybach MD870s.

Seen an artists impression of the super Deltic, I think it was in a Ian Allen publication 'The Deltics a Symposium' which unfortunately I have mislaid somewhere. From memory it was a slightly extended version of a class 55 bodyshell with some form of raking back of the nose ends, intrigued by the idea of a super Western though, never heard of that one.

 

[GM228]

Look what I started!

Back to my original question, can anyone tell me what happened to Colas's plans to use 86701 again and what happened to the use od UKRLs 56s by Freightliner?

GM228

 

[Johnnie2Sheds]

..... intrigued by the idea of a super Western though, never heard of that one.

Apparantly, they were going to squeeze a pair of 2,000hp MD870s and Mekydros into a suitably strengthened/redesigned Western bodyshell, Paddington was stopped however when Kestrel was on the drawingboard instead. A great pity IMHO. There was chatter of platework and part of the monocoque frames appearing at Swindon then being scrapped, but as I have never seen any evidence for these, I dont think it ever happened.

 

[fowler9]

I have a recollection of BR possibly during the late 80s or early 90s looking into configuring a batch of Class 56 locomotives for use on IC Cross Country services to replace the Class 47s. Fitting ETS and bogie modifications being mentioned, obviously it came to nothing, does anyone else remember this or have any more info?

That certainly rings a bell. I would have been made up.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

being picky but it was a VEP

It was in fact a CIG; the carriage in question was 76112 and it came from unit 1749.

 

[Kentish Paul]

Apparantly, they were going to squeeze a pair of 2,000hp MD870s and Mekydros into a suitably strengthened/redesigned Western bodyshell, Paddington was stopped however when Kestrel was on the drawingboard instead. A great pity IMHO. There was chatter of platework and part of the monocoque frames appearing at Swindon then being scrapped, but as I have never seen any evidence for these, I dont think it ever happened.

Quite correct. I have a book on the Westerns (sorry, cannot find it) whch shows a drawing of the layout. It was basically two Hymek engines at their euro rating in a Western body shell. Was a bit of a squeeze as they were V16 as apposed to the normal V12.

Would have loved to have heard it at full chat.

 

[davyp]

Yes, I agree there on both points, would add the SR trio of 1-Co-Co-1s also, just a little before my time sadly.

And towards the end they (10000, 10001 and the SR trio) were regulars on the Manchester Central to Derby trains, often double headed. Sadly I AM old enough to remember them stopping at Cheadle Heath Station and running through the environs of Adswood and Hazel Grove.

 

[Kentish Paul]

Yes, I agree there on both points, would add the SR trio of 1-Co-Co-1s also, just a little before my time sadly.

The Southern trio were basically class 40 prototypes. The 2000hp engine of the final one went into the class 40. The body of a class 40 was obviously different but the bogies were the same.

 

[physics34]

It was in fact a CIG; the carriage in question was 76112 and it came from unit 1749.

ah cheers for clearing that up. I remember it bing coupled to 3 vep coaches. That put me off course!

 

[3141]

And towards the end they (10000, 10001 and the SR trio) were regulars on the Manchester Central to Derby trains, often double headed. Sadly I AM old enough to remember them stopping at Cheadle Heath Station and running through the environs of Adswood and Hazel Grove.

And what about 10101 as well, which I recollect was a diesel-mechanical loco and caught fire at Manchester Central in 1959 or 1960 leading to its withdrawal.