Local station vandalised

[CallySleeperKid]

My local station, Langley Mill on the Nottinghamshire Derbyshire border, has recently had new station shelters for the first time since it opened, the old ones were very tired and run down and had no lighting, all the windows were boarded up, they were covered in graffiti and smelt of urine, as well as being a regular night shelter for the local yobs.

Well the new, smart, lit shelters, that didn't leak like the old ones, have lasted a week before being smashed up by the local scum. It really pains me that this kind of thing happens, especially after waiting so long for a little bit of money to be spent on our station, giving us a bit of shelter from the rain while waiting for a train.

It has been covered in the local press, both the Eastwood & Kimberley Advertiser and Ripley & Heanor News ran the story but there is nothing as yet on their websites.

Its depressing, I am just lost for words as to why these idiots do these things. If these kids want to sit there at night, then fair enough, but why smash it up? It really is a total embarrassment calling this my home town, well the town next door!

 

[Neilandrewhall]

At my Local Station Gidea Park, Its open to the public 24/7 as there are no barriers, and what we do at night, is when the last train has gone and we all go home, we activate this sensor in the station, that basically acts as a real person is in the station ( When in fact it is recording) But it scares the living **** out of you, Cause it says Oi! Your not meant to be here! Im warning you, You best get out of the Station, before I get the Police, and then if they move onto another point, it sets off again going I no your still here this is your final chance,! and the sensors connect direct to Romford Police Station, This sounds like something they need to roll out more frequently.

Neil

 

[WillPS]

I think the key in these schemes is employing somebody to lock up and open up each day. Nothing's free though.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Residents of Yate near Bristol have had their plastic shelters smashed about 3 times in a week recently, FGW have turned around and said, ‘Right, we won’t bother replacing them then', and everyone's having a go at the now!

Around here, at Lostock Hall and Bamber Bridge (the former very liable to chavs hanging around at night) they recently replaced the old stone/plastic shelters with glass ones, well-lit etc, and they haven't been touched for about 6 months! I doubt my two locals Cherry Tree and Mill Hill (Lancs) will ever receive them - they will be wrecked within the first week, trust me. Sad but true.

Church & Oswaldtwistle, down the Accrington end of the line has no such problems; however, the security team for the well-known Oswaldtwistle Mills store patrol the station too!

The only thing that can be done is remove the shelters, put tons and tons of CCTV on the most notorious stations, or employ a team to go round the stations from say 2200-0600 each day, keeping everything in order, and making sure there are no disturbances. I personally don’t think the last thing I said is such a bad idea!

 

[Wyvern]

I have to say that Belper has stayed pretty tidy since they did it up. It's quite open but has CCTV and litter bags. Youngsters do gather in the evenings. Sometimes they chuck their bottles on the track or up the back. During the day in the summer people will go to eat their snap and watch the trains. You can see the bottles cans and chip cartons in the litter bags.

Maybe it's because it's in the town centre, though hidden, or because the footpath is a walking route to the town centre.

 

[Trog]

Just think how much better life could be without vandals etc. If a waiting room at a station could be fitted out with padded seats heating and a TV set, and it would be respected and looked after. How much good could be done with the money now wasted on clearing up after these people. We could have structures built to look good and be comfortable rather than just vandal resistant boxes.

If I ever get to run the country there will be gallows mounted in the streets, and the sort of idiots that do that sort of thing will be hanging from them. As I am a great believer in the abiliy of such suspended sentences to prevent re-offending.

 

[TomBoyRacer]

The station in my hometown which was once a busy and important station is now unstaffed after a certain time in the evening resulting in the closure of the ticket office when the staff go home. The powers that be installed a waiting room to shelter folk from the cold. This lasted a few weeks until some local scumbag came and ripped out the copper piping to the radiators, which resulted in it flooding. I don't think it was put back.

There where and I think still are stocks in the town centre. When you hear of something having gone on, there are often pleas in the paper to reinstate them. Would never happen of course...

 

[mumrar]

To quote Alan Partridge "Scum. Sub-human scum".

We have a large portion of society where people have barely enough respect for themselves, and absolutely none for anyone else. This means little bullying pondlife who do things such as this can thrive. What mentality gains pleasure from the destruction of inanimate objects?

The western world like to wander the globe telling everyone else how they should be living their lives, but if you look at punishments in the eastern countries they are able to keep much larger populations in check. Namby pamby kid glove approaches to problem clearly does not work.

We have so many people out of work and business struggling, we should use this latent workforce to build the prisons we're told we're short of. Then they won't have to pass down deriding non-sentences for offences or multiple offences committed by perpetual scum.

Now if I may, I shall dismount the soapbox to allow others a go.

 

[142094]

Obviously the solution would be to have more staff at stations, but of course this is expensive and the reason why many stations are unstaffed. However I wonder what the costs are of having a security person patrol several stations against the costs of replacing platform furniture each time it has been vandalised.

 

[scotsman]

The station in my hometown which was once a busy and important station is now unstaffed after a certain time in the evening resulting in the closure of the ticket office when the staff go home. The powers that be installed a waiting room to shelter folk from the cold. This lasted a few weeks until some local scumbag came and ripped out the copper piping to the radiators, which resulted in it flooding. I don't think it was put back.

There where and I think still are stocks in the town centre. When you hear of something having gone on, there are often pleas in the paper to reinstate them. Would never happen of course...

You're not from Berwick, are you?

 

[jon0844]

Obviously the solution would be to have more staff at stations, but of course this is expensive and the reason why many stations are unstaffed. However I wonder what the costs are of having a security person patrol several stations against the costs of replacing platform furniture each time it has been vandalised.

Given the crazy cost for street furniture, no doubt even more expensive on the railway, you could probably employ a full time security guard for every station.

A security guard would also make people feel safer, but despite that - what TOC is going to do that unless MADE to do so, as part of a franchise requirement?

 

[Mojo]

A security guard would also make people feel safer, but despite that - what TOC is going to do that unless MADE to do so, as part of a franchise requirement?

They're only there 7am-7pm to man the ticket barriers for those oh-so rowdy commuters and daytrippers

When the real trouble comes out of a night they're nowhere to be seen, leaving the troublemakers to not buy tickets and hassle genuine customers and staff.

 

[YorkshireBear]

just get firing squads to patrol network

 

[jon0844]

They're only there 7am-7pm to man the ticket barriers for those oh-so rowdy commuters and daytrippers

When the real trouble comes out of a night they're nowhere to be seen, leaving the troublemakers to not buy tickets and hassle genuine customers and staff.

Yes, I always found that with the security guards employed by Wagn. They avoided everything, and often just walked through the train (only deterring people by wearing 'security' hi-vis vests presumably) and then reached the end and sat playing with their mobiles. Actually, tell a lie, most of the time they stood up in the doorway playing with their mobiles.

Security guards obviously don't want to stir up trouble, but they do need to be prepared and willing to do their job. Otherwise you might as well pick volunteer passengers to wear 'security' vests on their trip home and hope that this is all you need to do to put people off doing something.

Revenue checks at night usually net loads of money, yet many TOCs don't do it as a matter of course - if only Friday/Saturday nights to begin with. Having staff at a station must help prevent damage to property, and probably even helps with damage on a train (given people might just fear that if they did something on the train, it could be reported and they'll be stopped before they can leave railway property).

I do like the firing squad idea though. I'd happily pay an extra 1% a year to fund that.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Does CCTV actually act as much of a deterrent?

The only obvious solution is to close (as in physically block off) stations at night (this could obviously cost millions, but would only need to be done at the most notorious). Even an iron gate across the main entrance would be enough, but then again you'd have to employ someone to do that, get insurance, get a 1567-page H&S report on it, blah, blah, blah. You would then find the thugs finding alternative ways to get into the station...

Surely these (at Langley Mill):
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/sjp/LGM/images/photos/800/o2353-0000018.jpg
And
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/sjp/LGM/images/photos/800/o2353-0000015.jpg

Could easily be blocked off overnight?

 

[Lampshade]

Around here, at Lostock Hall and Bamber Bridge (the former very liable to chavs hanging around at night) they recently replaced the old stone/plastic shelters with glass ones, well-lit etc, and they haven't been touched for about 6 months! I doubt my two locals Cherry Tree and Mill Hill (Lancs) will ever receive them - they will be wrecked within the first week, trust me. Sad but true.

They're rubbish, the stone ones at Lostock Hall actually worked as shelters; the wind and rain blow through the glass ones. They've got the same ones at Chapel-en-le-Frith, they had the same stone ones until last year and they acted as a great windbreak - last time I went I was waiting in the new glass one on a very cold and wet night and I got just as wet stood in the glass shelter as I would have done stood on the open platform

just get firing squads to patrol network

They're certainly needed on Saturday night trains out of Manchester Piccadilly

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Looks like SWT are doing something to conquer this problem on their network...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-11806239

Do they really have chavs in Guildford?

 

[GospelOak117]

Yes, I always found that with the security guards employed by Wagn. They avoided everything, and often just walked through the train (only deterring people by wearing 'security' hi-vis vests presumably) and then reached the end and sat playing with their mobiles. Actually, tell a lie, most of the time they stood up in the doorway playing with their mobiles.

Security guards obviously don't want to stir up trouble, but they do need to be prepared and willing to do their job. Otherwise you might as well pick volunteer passengers to wear 'security' vests on their trip home and hope that this is all you need to do to put people off doing something.

Revenue checks at night usually net loads of money, yet many TOCs don't do it as a matter of course - if only Friday/Saturday nights to begin with. Having staff at a station must help prevent damage to property, and probably even helps with damage on a train (given people might just fear that if they did something on the train, it could be reported and they'll be stopped before they can leave railway property).

I do like the firing squad idea though. I'd happily pay an extra 1% a year to fund that.

WAGN's security guards, ha what a joke they were! Like you said, groups of them just sat at the end of the train entertaining themselves while passengers and groups of kids were obviously getting on without a ticket, spotting them and running down the train to get away. When the guards eventually got up and looked like they were about to do something they'd just get off!

 

[YorkshireBear]

id happily pay it too, dont care there braking law they wont vandalise if they think officers with semi automatics are just round corner..

 

[12CSVT]

Yes, I always found that with the security guards employed by Wagn. They avoided everything, and often just walked through the train (only deterring people by wearing 'security' hi-vis vests presumably) and then reached the end and sat playing with their mobiles. Actually, tell a lie, most of the time they stood up in the doorway playing with their mobiles.

Security guards obviously don't want to stir up trouble, but they do need to be prepared and willing to do their job. Otherwise you might as well pick volunteer passengers to wear 'security' vests on their trip home and hope that this is all you need to do to put people off doing something.

I think part of the problem is that untrained security guards are used as a substitute for trained police officers, and lets face it what is the point of PCSOs apart from policing on the cheap ?
All too often these security guards / 'rail enforcement officers' / PCSOs (or whatever the TOCs wish to call them) have probably had no more training than the average night club bouncer. And we are only too aware that some are more interested in hassling railway photographers than dealing with real troublemakers.

 

[jon0844]

Well, I think that - by and large - PCSOs are a waste of time. They can assist the police and speak to the public, but that's about it.

These security guards weren't even PCSOs, they were just out-of-work security guards/bouncers that were paid to wear a vest and stand on a train between a few trouble hotspots (ISTR it was between Potters Bar and Stevenage). There was really no point at all, and I am not sure they're used at all now. However, I am not sure they've been replaced with PCSOs or - dare I say it - real police. I very much doubt it, as I've not seen security guards for a couple of years now. If you see a PCSO, they'll only be on there to get from one station to another for work, not to actually patrol.

 

[Greenback]

To quote Alan Partridge "Scum. Sub-human scum".

We have a large portion of society where people have barely enough respect for themselves, and absolutely none for anyone else. This means little bullying pondlife who do things such as this can thrive. What mentality gains pleasure from the destruction of inanimate objects?

The western world like to wander the globe telling everyone else how they should be living their lives, but if you look at punishments in the eastern countries they are able to keep much larger populations in check. Namby pamby kid glove approaches to problem clearly does not work.

We have so many people out of work and business struggling, we should use this latent workforce to build the prisons we're told we're short of. Then they won't have to pass down deriding non-sentences for offences or multiple offences committed by perpetual scum.

Now if I may, I shall dismount the soapbox to allow others a go.

Exactly right. Unfortunately, there ar eplans to close prisons rather than build more!

Yes, I always found that with the security guards employed by Wagn. They avoided everything, and often just walked through the train (only deterring people by wearing 'security' hi-vis vests presumably) and then reached the end and sat playing with their mobiles. Actually, tell a lie, most of the time they stood up in the doorway playing with their mobiles.

Security guards obviously don't want to stir up trouble, but they do need to be prepared and willing to do their job. Otherwise you might as well pick volunteer passengers to wear 'security' vests on their trip home and hope that this is all you need to do to put people off doing something.

Revenue checks at night usually net loads of money, yet many TOCs don't do it as a matter of course - if only Friday/Saturday nights to begin with. Having staff at a station must help prevent damage to property, and probably even helps with damage on a train (given people might just fear that if they did something on the train, it could be reported and they'll be stopped before they can leave railway property).

I do like the firing squad idea though. I'd happily pay an extra 1% a year to fund that.

Revenue protection int he evening is very hit and miss. I caught the 2100 Swansea to Carmarthen HST twice last week, and Swansea station seems pretty much deserted at 2045. No shops, no ticket office, no barriers and little sign of the platfrom staff I know are there somewhere! There's certainly no police or PCSO's, they are only around in the daylight hours apparently!

Toc ap it all, there were no ticket checks at all ont he train on either occasion. Is it a free railway after 1900? No wonder the scum think they can behave how they like!

I think part of the problem is that untrained security guards are used as a substitute for trained police officers, and lets face it what is the point of PCSOs apart from policing on the cheap ?
All too often these security guards / 'rail enforcement officers' / PCSOs (or whatever the TOCs wish to call them) have probably had no more training than the average night club bouncer. And we are only too aware that some are more interested in hassling railway photographers than dealing with real troublemakers.

Even poorly trained security guards are better than nothing. PCSO's are trained, but do not have as many powers as the police. Anyne in a vest stating security is at least a deterrent as long as they are visible, and not hiding somewhere!

 

[jon0844]

Is it a free railway after 1900? No wonder the scum think they can behave how they like!

What's worse is that if they DO opt to do a random sting without police support, staff are (quite rightly, no doubt) told not to put themselves in danger - so the scrotes who have no respect for people or property will just storm out and not wait to be given a PF or have details taken.

Will the TOC then use CCTV footage and witness statements to take action later? Unlikely.

No, if you want to nip these problems in the bud, you need REAL police who can detain and arrest offenders, and make it clear that you stand a reasonable chance of being caught. Knowing you're almost certainly not going to be caught, especially if you can just laugh at a PCSO or railway staff, is no deterrent at all.

No wonder people do what they like. They have their peers telling them to do something and almost nobody to tell them not to.

 

[W-on-Sea]

c2c seem to have recently replaced the (generally sullen and uncommunicative, and sub-contracted) security guards who used to travel on some late-night services with a "customer service" person (just one, whereas the guards often used to travel in pairs).

Seems to work, too, given that the presence of any sort of uniformed (or rather hi-vis jacket-wearing) staff in this sort of role is essentially to provide "reassurance", rather than do anything more substantive (beyond telling people to stop smoking, take their feets off seats, etc). On one train I was one the "customer service" guy was going round waking up sleeping passengers to ensure they didn't miss their stop!

(The security guards remain at certain stations, generally the dodgier ones, where perhaps a bit of muscle might come in more useful - not that you'd mistake any of their guards for Arnie...)

 

[sheff1]

When I spent two weeks travelling between Inverkip and Glasgow last year there seemed to be a ticket seller constantly walking up and down the trains, even the late ones out of Glasgow. All the stations, although mostly unstaffed, had numerous CCTV cameras and a help point. I saw no anti-social behaviour.

The ridiculous thing in England, outside of the London area at least, is that stations have gatelines installed which are then left open and unmanned after about 1900/2000 - just in time for the lowlife to emerge.

Maybe the best idea though is the one I encountered on both the Rotterdam Metro and the Coastal Tramway in Belgium - squads of 5/6 plain clothed and armed ticket checkers.

 

[GospelOak117]

South West Trains's practice of having a guard with a small office in the middle of the train seems effective enough. I use their trains alot and they are always clean and unintimidating, even on the last train of the night. The one time there was any aggro on the last Guildford-Haslemere train the guard was straight in there. It's just a shame that DOO ever came about from a point of view of passenger comfort. That small office in the SWT Desiro's makes all the difference, NXEA's almost identical 360's are a whole different world without it.

 

[jon0844]

c2c is the only TOC where I've seen staff wearing body mounted CCTV and in the space of one visit (to Lakeside) saw incidents at two stations with local chavs goading the security staff to fight before hopping over the gatelines.

Sod the cameras, just arm the staff now!

 

[142094]

Given the crazy cost for street furniture, no doubt even more expensive on the railway, you could probably employ a full time security guard for every station.

A security guard would also make people feel safer, but despite that - what TOC is going to do that unless MADE to do so, as part of a franchise requirement?

A run of the mill standard bus shelter costs around £10,000, so if you have say two at each station, you could easily get a security guard for a year for that amount.

 

[jon0844]

If a bus shelter costs £10,000, I bet the company that makes them renames them 'train station shelters' and charges £20,000 for them.

 

[bnm]

A run of the mill standard bus shelter costs around £10,000, so if you have say two at each station, you could easily get a security guard for a year for that amount.

Lets say a 10 year life span for those 2 shelters (probably much more). £2000 a year. Can't get a security guard for that cost!