Local lockdown - Liverpool region

[Yew]

and some experts even think that artificially suppressing it could actually
make things worse in the long term...






MARK

I've made a thread here to discuss some of these studies.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Would you like to expand on why Sweden is so different?

Simple answer: massively lower population density and few large urban areas.

 

[Bantamzen]

Simple answer: massively lower population density and few large urban areas.

I'm afraid this one has already been debunked.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I'm afraid this one has already been debunked.

Yes. But it does explain why it was thought a policy of minimal intervention was viable.

 

[Vespa]

Would you like to expand on why Sweden is so different?

I'm asking you that, you quoted Sweden and other yet unamed countries as bucking the trend on Covid, since you mentuoned them, I would like you to explain to me why.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

For the benefit of those thinking that use of public transport cannot be banned, I attach two documents of 'model provisions' which have been prepared to allow just that in the form of regulations.

The documents begin:

This document is part of the “Covid 19 – Area Restrictions Regulations Toolkit” for provisions to be included in Regulations made under Part 2A of the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 in response to the threat posed by SARS-CoV-2 in a particular area or particular areas of England. It contains model provisions that could be used where restrictions are needed on transport services or the use of roads.

and

This document is part of the “Covid 19 – Area Restrictions Regulations Toolkit” for provisions to be included in Regulations made under Part 2A of the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 in response to the threat posed by SARS-CoV-2 in a particular area or particular areas of England. It contains model provisions that could be used where restrictions on entry to or exit from the protected area, or travel within the protected area by conveyance, are needed.

The full suite of documents is available here:
Web link for Area Restrictions Regulations Toolkit

 

[yorkie]

Simple answer: massively lower population density and few large urban areas.

You misunderstand.

Most cases are in the Stockholm area, which is comparable to Britush cities (more so than Norwegian cities).

The parts of Sweden with low population density have seen few cases.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Sep 2020 ==

Would you like to expand on why Sweden is so different?

I doubt you will get an answer as it will highlight a misunderstanding.

I don't think a source for the 250k deaths is forthcoming, so I can only assume it's a reference to Ferguson, which says it all.

 

[Bikeman78]

Merseyrail Security thugs were asking people for the reason for travelling during the first lockdown and I suspect they will try that again in their usual intimidating manner.

Were they travelling around on the trains or asking people at stations?

 

[nedchester]

Were they travelling around on the trains or asking people at stations?

Both

 

[MikeWM]

Was this abandoned? It was supposed to start Tuesday, but so far no regulations have been published.

(Was intending to travel to Liverpool next week, not sure that's going ahead now but would be good to know what the legal situation is...)

 

[island]

Regulations have in fact been published, see SI 2020/1019 which duly took effect yesterday.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Was this abandoned? It was supposed to start Tuesday, but so far no regulations have been published.

(Was intending to travel to Liverpool next week, not sure that's going ahead now but would be good to know what the legal situation is...)

It's in the North West restrictions.

One could argue whether that makes sense, but the government is not hot on detail or logic, or in things being understood by the common man. Bolton is not in Greater Manchester for local restrictions - makes sense as it has different restrictions, but Oldham is in Greater Manchester, and also has different restrictions. One, or the other, is illogical captain. Previously West Yorkshire (parts, not all) were in with the parts of Lancashire etc.

Travel restrictions

In the affected local areas, we advise that you should only use public transport for essential reasons. We encourage you to walk or cycle where possible and to plan your journey in advance, avoiding busy times and routes if possible. Examples of essential reasons include:

to get to and from work

to get essential food or medical supplies including click and collect services

to support someone who is vulnerable, if no-one else can do so

to travel to and from the homes of others in your support bubble

to attend an early years setting, school or college, or to accompany a child who is attending an early years setting, school or college, where necessary

to fulfil legal obligations

to seek medical care, or avoid illness, injury or harm

 

[MikeWM]

Regulations have in fact been published, see SI 2020/1019 which duly took effect yesterday.

Ah, thanks. Who would think to look in an SI called Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (Protected Areas and Linked Childcare Households) (Amendment) Regulations 2020 for a Liverpool lockdown?!

So they amend the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (North East of England) Regulations 2020 - to include Liverpool! - and then amend the name of that existing regulation to include 'North West'...

What a ludicrous mess.

 

[island]

Ah, thanks. Who would think to look in an SI called Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (Protected Areas and Linked Childcare Households) (Amendment) Regulations 2020 for a Liverpool lockdown?!

So they amend the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (North East of England) Regulations 2020 - to include Liverpool! - and then amend the name of that existing regulation to include 'North West'...

What a ludicrous mess.

Quite.

 

[Bod]

Are we now banned from using Merseyrail to roam around like free spirits on the day ticket owing to the essential travel declaration?

 

[fodphil]

Are we now banned from using Merseyrail to roam around like free spirits on the day ticket owing to the essential travel declaration?

It was fine on Thursday

 

[Bod]

Thanks. As I live miles away I tend to do several days in a row to make it worthwhile. Not sure if I would be sent home for doing that.

 

[childwallblues]

I note that a lot of enthusiasts suddenly have to come here to try and get the 507/508 before they go to the scrapyard. I personally spent a lot of time in London getting the 313s and 315s for rides after their e=replacements were ordered.
I was lucky with the 507/508 riding all 76 units before the fleet was reduced to 59. I also managed to ride in each carriage of the remaining 59 units.

 

[yorkie]

Are we now banned from using Merseyrail to roam around like free spirits on the day ticket owing to the essential travel declaration?

I don't believe there is any restriction on freedom of movement in the Liverpool area.

I do not believe it would be lawful to allow people greater freedom of movement in a private car than on public transport; anyone who believes otherwise is treading a very dangerous line as far as I'm concerned.

See post #11

 

[Bikeman78]

Thanks. As I live miles away I tend to do several days in a row to make it worthwhile. Not sure if I would be sent home for doing that.

I think you should be okay. I spent part of last week milling around on Merseyrail. Passengers numbers are holding up okay during the hours that shops are open, despite the relentless Essential travel only messages. Some three car trains on the Southport line are full and standing. The Police seems to have their hands too full with people with feet on seats/no ticket/no mask to worry about some crank with a valid rover.

 

[birchesgreen]

You could argue if they don't want people travelling around the network on a rover all day they shouldn't be selling them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You could argue if they don't want people travelling around the network on a rover all day they shouldn't be selling them.

I did say during the last lockdown that all tickets other than Anytime Singles should be withdrawn, because if you need to travel you'll pay that much but otherwise you won't.

 

[greyman42]

I don't believe there is any restriction on freedom of movement in the Liverpool area.

Indeed there is not. That is why the Liverpool v Arsenal match kick off time has been brought forward by 15 minutes, so that the game is finished before 10 pm when the pubs shut. A lot of people are expected to watch the match in pubs.

 

[yorkie]

I did say during the last lockdown that all tickets other than Anytime Singles should be withdrawn, because if you need to travel you'll pay that much but otherwise you won't.

That's not going to happen, but in a fantasy land, it did I'd be more than happy to provide advice on which longer distance fares have Off Peak Day Returns available, and are valid for starting/finishing short.

 

[DelayRepay]

I did say during the last lockdown that all tickets other than Anytime Singles should be withdrawn, because if you need to travel you'll pay that much but otherwise you won't.

Yes, that would be a good way of showing the country's appreciation for key workers who don't earn a lot and need to get the train to work.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, that would be a good way of showing the country's appreciation for key workers who don't earn a lot and need to get the train to work.

OK, keep seasons as well (didn't think of those).

 

[duncanp]

The Matt cartoon in the Telegraph for tomorrow amused me.

(Cartoon shows a football fan walking outside Anfield with a banner behind showing "Perhaps you'd better walk alone")

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The Matt cartoon in the Telegraph for tomorrow amused me.

(Cartoon shows a football fan walking outside Anfield with a banner behind showing "Perhaps you'd better walk alone")

View attachment 84180

A more pessimistic view may have it as "You'll always walk alone"

 

[bramling]

Quite a bit of push-back on tonight’s news from people in the Liverpool area concerned about the impacts in jobs, wellbeing and mental health.

The tide is definitely starting to turn. Unfortunately the problem is who cares about somewhere like Liverpool whilst Karen is happily working from home in the Home Counties and doesn’t have to get up to take the train to work?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Quite a bit of push-back....

The tide is definitely starting to turn......

In that case, the starting fine will be upped to £400 at midnight tomorrow.

Somewhere in Whitehall, a minister or civil servant is running round in ever decreasing circles, screaming 'listen to me, listen to me, listen to me, why is no-one listening to me, how can I make then listen".