Local Government Strikes tomorrow

[bussnapperwm]

I'm surprised I haven't found a thread alread on here about the national local government strike that's happening tomorrow.

Thankfully my union haven't balloted otherwise I would have non conformed to my unions wishes...especially when my job is already berms looked at as to be outsourced.

What are people's thoughts on this strike over pay and conditions?

 

[Nym]

Trade union membership and strike participation cannot be used as a tool for getting rid of people or an excuse...

 

[bussnapperwm]

Nah but a requirement of needing £200K from my department in savings can be used as a excuse to outsource.

I know about the 12 week rule for unfair dismissal from strike but I wouldn't strike anyway even if my union had balloted us because of being low paid and part time I couldn't afford to anyway...not at £50 a day out of my pay packet.

Plus they say they want more than what's being offered but that could in the long run mean that the council's would have to make more cutbacks...

 

[Haydn1971]

Thankfully my union haven't balloted otherwise I would have non conformed to my unions wishes...especially when my job is already berms looked at as to be outsourced.

Not a critique of you personally, but I find this quite odd, the strength of a union is with it's membership, why be in a union if you don't give then the teeth to fight your battles ?

I come from a strong trade union family, both mum and grandad were very high up in the Fire Brigades Union, both made me proud ! I was in NALGO/UNISON between 88-99, but moved to the private sector, then started my own freelance business in 2001, so didn't have a need for a union representation, but given most of my freelance rolls have been with local government clients, I've always respected my colleagues and taken an unpaid day at home (freelancers don't get paid leave) to show my respectful support and in all cases, gained more respect from my clients and the people employed around me - freelancers aren't all heartless money chasers

 

[bussnapperwm]

Not a critique of you personally, but I find this quite odd, the strength of a union is with it's membership, why be in a union if you don't give then the teeth to fight your battles ?

I come from a strong trade union family, both mum and grandad were very high up in the Fire Brigades Union, both made me proud ! I was in NALGO/UNISON between 88-99, but moved to the private sector, then started my own freelance business in 2001, so didn't have a need for a union representation, but given most of my freelance rolls have been with local government clients, I've always respected my colleagues and taken an unpaid day at home (freelancers don't get paid leave) to show my respectful support and in all cases, gained more respect from my clients and the people employed around me - freelancers aren't all heartless money chasers

I joined the union initially because my job was at risk on capability grounds, the union helped me so when they balloted in the 2011? strike I joined in.

But in these times of further cutbacks and the like, any success that the strikes tomorrow gain, the potential further redundancies, over and above the current ones that are planned in my local authority, that could be made could, in my opinion, mean that more people losing their jobs, plus the possible outsourcing that my department might have to suffer.

 

[Metrailway]

It's not just local government workers striking on the 10th July. The Civil Service (PCS), teachers (NUT), firefighters (FBU), and TfL workers (RMT) are striking as well.

A few union leaders have said that this may be the biggest strike since the General Strike in 1926.

I'm sceptical of such claims, however.

 

[Kite159]

First I've heard there is a strike tomorrow, so it can't be the largest since the General Strike, otherwise it would feature more in the newspapers and other media

 

[yorksrob]

Thankfully my union haven't balloted otherwise I would have non conformed to my unions wishes...especially when my job is already berms looked at as to be outsourced.

What are people's thoughts on this strike over pay and conditions?

You'll might find that your management aren't as antagonistic towards the strike as you may think, particularly given the squeeze that this government has put on local Government.

 

[SS4]

My union has not been balloted but I am supporting those who are in spirit. We must stand shoulder to shoulder with our brother workers

 

[yorksrob]

Yes, I'm out as well.

 

[yorkie]

It's made worse in some cases because many jobs are not seen by bosses as worthy of decent pay, so they fudge it by giving inaccurate/incomplete job descriptions, and say there isn't enough money to give an accurate job description (despite a pre-defined accurate job description existing).

It's particularly irking for people in the aforementioned situation who (rightly) feel undervalued to accept these excuses when one or two people get preferential treatment, as some bosses like to incentivise a small number of jobs beyond what the job descriptions say, so pay them as if they worked more hours than they actually do, again in order to fudge it.

I know several people in that position, some are striking and some are not (because they daren't, in some cases).

Unions have much more power in workplaces where there are many people who are doing a similar job and whose terms are the same, and who can't so easily be replaced when they strike.

I feel some unions do exaggerate and are a bit too far to the left, and not always realistic. However I still think it's a good idea to be in a union, and I'd support a strike providing it's based on realistic demands.

 

[Polarbear]

Well I'll be on strike tomorrow.

Since the financial crash in 2008-09, nearly everyone has been expected to tighten their belts & accept wages freezes or cuts in some instances. Fast forward to 2014 and we are told that the economy is slowly recovering.

Whilst wages in the private sector are starting to move upwards (albeit slowly) after six years of stagnation, the current government is now openly suggesting that wage restraint in the public sector should continue until at least 2018 which means around 10 years of either wage freezes or below inflation rises.

If the economy was recovering as suggested by politicians & the media, this should be reflected across the whole of UK society, not just in certain areas.

Since 2008-09, my income has been reduced in real terms by about 20%. This is due to a combination of a 2 year wage freeze, 3 years of 1% pay increases (which given inflation has been above 1% for the whole time is effectively a pay cut in real terms), and increases to my pension contributions. I will say at this point that whilst I would rather not have these changes, I could see why they may have been needed initially, given the severity of the financial crisis.

However, in my opinion, what is being proposed now goes way beyond what is necessary to support a recovering economy and is fast becoming an ideological attack on the public sector. As I mentioned earlier, it's quite possible that "Austerity" will be used as an excuse to get away with almost anything should the current government be allowed to do so.

My question would be - how long will I have to keep paying for someone elses mistake? I don't mind doing "my bit", but I for one am not prepared to see my standard of living go into a semi-permanent decline whilst others (such as MP's who will receive an 11.5% pay increase after the next election), will do very nicely thank you off the back of this.

 

[Tom B]

Was there not once a time when the public sector was supposed to be held up as a model for a well-treated workforce, rather than vilified?

 

[SS4]

Was there not once a time when the public sector was supposed to be held up as a model for a well-treated workforce, rather than vilified?

I heard this too. Wages were lower than the private sector but in return you got a good pension, good conditions and a job for life.

These days it's like the private sector with lower wages

 

[Clip]

I heard this too. Wages were lower than the private sector but in return you got a good pension, good conditions and a job for life.

These days it's like the private sector with lower wages

Do they not still get one? I have no idea as I dont work for them but we must also remember that those good pensions are now starting to cost a lot more because people are living longer and longer so the costs are shooting up to provide for them surely?

 

[Nym]

I heard this too. Wages were lower than the private sector but in return you got a good pension, good conditions and a job for life.

These days it's like the private sector with lower wages

Indeed, in my trade one is seeing massive increases in salaries in the private sector, but very little in the way of rises in the public sector. We're graded alongside any other "Support Managers" and "Middle Managers" in my job, so one does feel rather undervalued compared with the 15k more a former college is now earning (in the private sector), in addition to a significantly more generous benefits package.

 

[Polarbear]

Was there not once a time when the public sector was supposed to be held up as a model for a well-treated workforce, rather than vilified?

Yes there was. When I joined in the late 1980's, the pension was excellent but in return, you accepted that your wage would be lower than the private sector.

Over the course of the last 20 years or so, wages in the private sector have risen, but often in exchange for giving up rights such as TU representation & final salary pensions. That in turn has created the apparent disparity where public sector workers are seen by some to have "gold plated" pensions.

Don't get me wrong -I still have a reasonable pension & one that may private sector workers could only dream of. It's not as good as it was though.

As for being a well treated & respected workforce, I'm afraid those days are long behind us. Since 2010 (the same year as the coalition came to power, not that I could draw any parallel), I've seen many changes to my terms & conditions of employment under the banner of "Civil Service Reform", most of which are detrimental. Publicly, the talk is of improving the civil service to become more efficient and more responsive in a fast moving world & I would agree with that ethos as there is always room for improvement. The reality is that changes are being imposed without much if any consultation & if we don't like it, we know where the door is.:roll:

I don't mind learning new things and improving my skills. I would however prefer to do so without a metaphorical gun (in the form of wage restraint, changes to T&C's and the threat of being sacked if I don't improve my performance) being held to my head to do it!

 

[SS4]

Do they not still get one? I have no idea as I dont work for them but we must also remember that those good pensions are now starting to cost a lot more because people are living longer and longer so the costs are shooting up to provide for them surely?

I think they went ahead and changed it retroactively despite PCS strikes in 2010/2011. It's long been the case that new entrants do not get the same pensions as those now retired but that's to be expected

 

[Polarbear]

Do they not still get one? I have no idea as I dont work for them but we must also remember that those good pensions are now starting to cost a lot more because people are living longer and longer so the costs are shooting up to provide for them surely?

Yes, the public sector pensions are still quite good. Personally, I don't mind having to pay something towards my pension as the non-contributory set up was unsustainable in the long term.

My only complaint in this regard is that we have been asked to pay more at the same time as a long term wage freeze/pay restraint. Whilst many in the private sector have lost their pensions or had their value reduced over the years, this hasn't generally been accompanied by a freeze on wages.

 

[Greenback]

Was there not once a time when the public sector was supposed to be held up as a model for a well-treated workforce, rather than vilified?

Yes, there was. Someone working in the public sector would also have been regarded as a public servant, and seen as a trustworthy person, rather than the type of lazy, inefficient waste of space that they are often portrayed as in the printed media these days.

I heard this too. Wages were lower than the private sector but in return you got a good pension, good conditions and a job for life.

These days it's like the private sector with lower wages

This is true. A job for life was the biggest benefit, but the idea of that has long since disappeared now.

Good conditions were also important, and would have been superior to working in a factory, steelworks, down a mine or something like that. Hence the appeal.

Do they not still get one? I have no idea as I dont work for them but we must also remember that those good pensions are now starting to cost a lot more because people are living longer and longer so the costs are shooting up to provide for them surely?

The public sector pensions that I have contributed to during my very varied working life are OK. The one I am in now has been downgraded from a final salary scheme, but at least I have kept the same terms for any service before the date of the change.

It certainly isn't as good as it was, and I have to pay more towards it, but there we go, there are an awful lot of people in the same boat. I did take part in a couple of one day strikes which, it was said, led to some improvements being negotiated, so it can be worth striking.

Yes, the public sector pensions are still quite good. Personally, I don't mind having to pay something towards my pension as the non-contributory set up was unsustainable in the long term.

My only complaint in this regard is that we have been asked to pay more at the same time as a long term wage freeze/pay restraint. Whilst many in the private sector have lost their pensions or had their value reduced over the years, this hasn't generally been accompanied by a freeze on wages.

I agree. I know of long serving members of staff in my place who had one flat rate increase of £250 in five years. It's all very well trying to cut the deficit but the result of pay freezes and tiny pay rises is that the economy will contract as people tighten their belts.

 

[Moonshot]

As state spending is increasingly seen by the electorate as unsustainable, it is inevitable that major reforms of public services will be required. A general election is looming on the horizon, and i suspect a large part of each political partys election manifesto will be dedicated to reforms in the public sector.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Being the known cynic that I am, will the combination of school closures for the day and nice weather see a one day "spike" in the number of shoplifting offences in the shops in Manchester City centre ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As for being a well treated & respected workforce, I'm afraid those days are long behind us. Since 2010 (the same year as the coalition came to power, not that I could draw any parallel), I've seen many changes to my terms & conditions of employment under the banner of "Civil Service Reform", most of which are detrimental. Publicly, the talk is of improving the civil service to become more efficient and more responsive in a fast moving world & I would agree with that ethos as there is always room for improvement. The reality is that changes are being imposed without much if any consultation & if we don't like it, we know where the door is.:roll:

If the Labour Party had been returned to power in the 2010 General Election, what measures do you think would have taken place to deal with the matter of the rather large deficit that they had accumulated in their previous long tenure of office ?

Would all the public sector employees be treated differently by these Labour plans than the rest of the British working force ?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Yes, the public sector pensions are still quite good. Personally, I don't mind having to pay something towards my pension as the non-contributory set up was unsustainable in the long term.

They're OK, but nothing more. They have been changed from "final salary" to "career average", and the expected contributions are now higher. I have to pay 7% into my pension, my partner in the NHS is charged 9% for hers.

All of us in the public or semi-public sector are being treated appallingly. My own wages have suffered a 15% real-terms pay cut since 2008, and the pay settlement for the next year is a pathetic 2% (the big boss here gets an 11% increase, though, even though apparently we have no money).

the rather large deficit

The Tories have liked to confuse "deficit" with "national debt". As any fule kno, "deficit" is the amount by which expenditure exceeds income, whilst "national debt" is the amount we owe.

If they confuse these basic ideas, they're either disingenuous or incompetent, and I'm not sure which one is worse.

What we do know is that the national debt of the United Kingdom has doubled in the five years Economics Gideon has been at the wheel. Gordon Brown left us a national debt of £0.53tn, it is now up to £1.3tn. Yet we still hear of "Labour's debt".

Luckily, though, the Conservatives feel we have enough money to sell the Royal Mail off at an undervalue of £350m to their mates in corporate finance. So that's OK.

 

[AntoniC]

I`m on strike today ( as a PCS member).

I have been in the CS since 1988 and I have never felt appreciated by ANY government of any colour.

I wont leave though as I have put to many years of contributions into my reducing in value CS pension.

My last two pay rises have been non-consolidated (ie dont count towards my pension) and were for 0.07% and 0.05% respectively (what makes it worse is they dont pay these rises in a lump sum , they get paid monthly).- oh and the Civil Service have been promised another 4 years of pay freezes.

I currently earn £19974 , when I joined in 1988 it was £7905 (inc a £1k London Weighting Allowance), good job I never joined to be rich !

 

[ExRes]

Obviously some people forgot to strike today as my local supermarket is jammed with schoolkids, just like every other school day, the commuters are showing their sympathy by parking wherever they want for the station, presumably guessing that they won't be getting a ticket, all in all another helpful day for the overall economy I would say

 

[Moonshot]

No evidence of strike action where I live.....the scream of kids on lunch at the school behind my house is all too evident!!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Luckily, though, the Conservatives feel we have enough money to sell the Royal Mail off at an undervalue of £350m to their mates in corporate finance. So that's OK.

So you feel that the pension funds that bought into the sale of the Royal Mail did a disservice to those pension fundholders who have pensions with them ?

Or are you saying that the proceeds of the pension funds have been criminally used to purchase the shares by the senior fund managers to fraudulently divert the proceeds of gained profit from the subsequent share sales into their own private bank accounts, leaving nothing for the pension holders to gain by this massive fraud. It is your duty, having knowledge of the criminal action that you state has taken place, to put this matter AT ONCE to the police authorities.

Incidentally, how good it is of you to put right the scurrilous rumour that the Labour Party in its last terms of office was profligate and in fact, a reading of the fiscal affairs of the country in the stewardship of Gordon "Prudence" Brown would reveal a glowing tribute to the huge amount of monies in the Treasury that were so vast, that even enormous public spending on all the Government departments only made a small dent in this vast wealth.....

 

[bussnapperwm]

Obviously some people forgot to strike today as my local supermarket is jammed with schoolkids, just like every other school day, the commuters are showing their sympathy by parking wherever they want for the station, presumably guessing that they won't be getting a ticket, all in all another helpful day for the overall economy I would say

Half of my colleagues are striking so the other half have been taking up the slack with their ticket machines. In fact we've had double the amount of tickets issued than on a normal day of this staffing level...

 

[IanD]

Whilst wages in the private sector are starting to move upwards (albeit slowly) after six years of stagnation, the current government is now openly suggesting that wage restraint in the public sector should continue until at least 2018 which means around 10 years of either wage freezes or below inflation rises.

My only complaint in this regard is that we have been asked to pay more at the same time as a long term wage freeze/pay restraint. Whilst many in the private sector have lost their pensions or had their value reduced over the years, this hasn't generally been accompanied by a freeze on wages.

My bold. Make your mind up.

My experience is that the private sector (barring a few exceptions such as bankers, ex-public sector employers eg TOCs) has been suffering from pay freezes or at best well-below inflation pay rises for a lot longer than 6 years.

The public sector does not generally lag behind the private sector in terms of pay any more yet they still expect their big pensions which were previously seen as a trade off for lower pay.

A large proportion of the lowest paid in society are now in the private sector thanks to outsourcing a lot of public sector jobs. Those outsourced workers lose out on both counts - low pay and rubbish pensions.

I had to laugh at some teacher on TV this morning who said that in real terms her pay had dropped 20% since this government took over. Well, welcome to the real world. She claimed that no-one she had spoken today was against the strike - of course not as no parents had turned up to drop their kids off. Then claimed that because she hadn't had an above inflation pay rise for a couple of years, she should now have a massive pay rise to make up for it. That just defeats the whole object of pay restraint in the first place!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

They're OK, but nothing more. They have been changed from "final salary" to "career average", and the expected contributions are now higher. I have to pay 7% into my pension, my partner in the NHS is charged 9% for hers.

You use the word "have" as a form of imposition, rather than something that you would have done of your own free will, in order to eventually gain the best possible company employment pension, which will supplement your state pension.

Both my wife and I paid in the maximum possible employee contribution allowed into our company employment pension, in addition to having our own personal private pension schemes, before our retirement. We both are now reaping the benefit of what some would decry as "personal responsibility".