LNWR/WMT Super Off Peak Query

[96tommy]

Good evening,

Tomorrow I am looking at travelling with a Priv from Crewe to London Euston and back. However, my itinerary is


Crewe 1313
London Euston 1524

——————————

London Euston 0039
Northampton 0203

Northampton 0520 (starts here)
Crewe 0702

Looking at BRFares there seems to be a Super Off Peak Return fare for around £10 from Crewe to Euston if travelling on WMT/LNWR

However I can’t work out if it is valid on the 0520 Northampton to Crewe 0702. The only information I can find is restrictions on what time you can arrive/depart London

Is the ticket valid on the 0520 or not?

Thanks!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would say yes because:

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

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www.brfares.com

"Not valid for travel on northbound services timed to depart any station before 10:30.

Not valid for travel on services timed to depart the origin station on the ticket after 15:59 and before 19:01 in either direction."

But...

"A connecting service can be used to complete a journey begun at a valid time."

You left Euston at a valid time so you are OK. Though the chance of a ticket check on that train is somewhere around zero I reckon.

However because this is impossible to implement in a restriction code planners won't show it. This has been a known issue for 20 years now and staff are well aware of it.

 

[96tommy]

It starts at Northampton at 0520 I believe and terminates at Crewe

 

[Bletchleyite]

It starts at Northampton at 0520 I believe and terminates at Crewe

Sorry edited my previous post as I'd misread your question. I would say valid.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Yes, but you're relying on two things here.

1) Even though you're not as it's after midnight, you're relying on travelling the "previous day" otherwise you can't leave Euston before 10:30am.

2) You're starting your connecting journey at an original departure time that the ticket was otherwise valid.

However, you may well be kicked out at Northampton for a few hours and only allowed back in closer to a train departure time - no idea how strict the staff are or how they operate the station throughout the night.

It seems rather a difficult and uncomfortable itinerary to follow personally - but horses for courses!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Presumably that train will be a Northampton (?) rather than Bletchley crew but I'd still be amazed if there was a ticket check on it anyway. I'd also be surprised if NMP gateline wasn't open at 0520, or if it is staffed it'll be staffed by a security guard who really doesn't care.

I'd be surprised if doing this led to a problem, particularly for staff, aside from maybe needing to sit on the steps for a couple of hours.

 

[96tommy]

Thanks for the replies, just one of those grey areas. As you said ticket checks might not even take place plus being staff usually works in your favour, cheers!

 

[Starmill]

I would say that you are covered by the wording quoted above by @Bletchleyite for the morning:

A connecting service can be used to complete a journey begun at a valid time.

But you should be prepared to have this part to hand to show if there's a ticket check in the morning, and potentially pay again, although that's very unlikely, and to later raise a complaint asking for the additional money back, by relying on the wording Bletchleyite mentioned.

You are in the fortune position that, as there are no possible alternative services, you can easily fit within the meaning of "a connecting service" - even though your connection time is quite long.

Most conductors are sensible people and usually will allow travel on the first service of the day even with an expired ticket from the previous night, if the passenger claims to have missed their last train. You can usually tell when someone's been waiting all night outside a station. Usually the first train of the day is very lightly loaded, so this discretion doesn't cost anything as long as the ticket would have been valid on whatever the last train the previous day was. But that's a discretion you don't need to rely on here because luckily your ticket hasn't expired.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

You're unlikely to have issues with West Midlands Trains staff - aside from being kicked out at Northampton for a few hours, however the ticket barriers at Crewe will almost certainly reject your ticket and it will be the Avanti staff you will need to convince! That may be somewhat easier with a staff travel document.

If it's a barcode ticket, I would do my best to have it scanned as much as possible along the way, even if gates at Euston and Northampton are open, they should still accept scans.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If wanting to quote the restriction code to a member of staff https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ticket-types/validity/lf/ is probably more authoritative than brfares.com which while correct in this instance is unofficial. The wording is exactly the same of course.