LNR persistent delays - cause?

[Bletchleyite]

While I'm not a frequent user at the moment, I'm seeing lots of reports that the new LNR timetable isn't working well. While cancellations are fairly rare, there seem to be "sloppy" 5-10 minute delays all over the place.

This seems odd to me as it looked both simple and robust, with e.g. almost all of the splitting/joining removed.

Does anyone know what's going wrong, and whether it's likely to be fixed?

 

[43074]

Probably part of it (at least at the moment) is staff, e.g. at terminal stations/depots and in Control, getting used to the new timetable, bearing in mind this is the first week in which the December timetables have been able to run without strike disruption.

Would be very interested to know the % of London to Birmingham LNW services doing the parallel move at Ledburn Junction from slow to fast lines and vice versa as planned though. That happening as planned depends on trains from Manchester & Glasgow respectively hitting the junction right time, which is fair enough on paper. But in practice...

 

[Peregrine 4903]

I travel on the line everyday and it seems to be working very well to me. It's very robust.

 

[87015]

I travel on the line everyday and it seems to be working very well to me. It's very robust.

Presuming that’s contra-peak. The slows are a disaster more often than not and people are left behind on both fasts and slows Tue-Thu. RT performance is terrible, mornings especially.

They struggle to get right time starts from depot and then can’t keep time en-route. 4 vice 8 is also a speciality given they’ve abandoned 12 cars and is regular capes.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Presuming that’s contra-peak. The slows are a disaster more often than not and people are left behind on both fasts and slows Tue-Thu. RT performance is terrible, mornings especially.

They struggle to get right time starts from depot and then can’t keep time en-route. 4 vice 8 is also a speciality given they’ve abandoned 12 cars and is regular capes.

Yeah it is to be fair.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So is overcrowding and slow boarding the main issue then? Perhaps some 12s needed, though that'll mean some 8s to 4s contra peak and a more complex set of diagrams.

 

[Kite159]

I noticed on Friday the 20:46 to Crewe was only a single 350. I hope that was just a short form rather than being a booked single unit.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I noticed on Friday the 20:46 to Crewe was only a single 350. I hope that was just a short form rather than being a booked single unit.

2046 is booked 8. There are very few booked 4s unlike before, mostly early morning. 2146 is booked 4 though. They are on the timetables (not the Crewe one but you can see them south of Rugby on the Birmingham one).

Are the unit utilisations higher under this timetable? I guess perhaps they are due to the large number of peak extras and the 8s against the peak flows?

 

[brick60000]

Are the unit utilisations higher under this timetable?

With longer turnarounds, the units themselves might be ‘running’ less - but you therefore need more units (so shorter average formations) to resource the service.

Always a trade off - flog the resource and have a timetable that will easily fall off the cliff, or have longer turnarounds but have less resource to spread around !

 

[Watershed]

The turnrounds of the Crewe semifasts are now much reduced at Crewe, which certainly isn't helping. Trains are now routinely being run non-stop from Rugby to Stafford or Crewe to catch up time as soon as they're 20+ mins late, which more or less defeats the object of having a Trent Valley "stopper"!

 

[Bletchleyite]

The turnrounds of the Crewe semifasts are now much reduced at Crewe, which certainly isn't helping. Trains are now routinely being run non-stop from Rugby to Stafford or Crewe to catch up time as soon as they're 20+ mins late, which more or less defeats the object of having a Trent Valley "stopper"!

How are they ending up that late?

 

[Watershed]

How are they ending up that late?

It's not entirely obvious to me. To be fair, some of this has been during general periods of disruption - but the shorter turnrounds will continue to be a problem in the longrun.

 

[185]

Running time has been cut from 2:24ish down to 2:06 - 2:11 - removal of padding time which was crucial to service resilience. There is near zero dwell time, anywhere.

This puts the all stops local service just 20-30mins slower than an almost non-stop 125mph Pendolino.. Crazy

 

[Watershed]

Running time has been cut from 2:24ish down to 2:06 - 2:11 - removal of padding time which was crucial to service resilience. There is near zero dwell time, anywhere.

This puts the all stops local service just 20-30mins slower than an almost non-stop 125mph Pendolino.. Crazy

There are no more non-stop Pendolini anymore, all stop at least once. But yes, whilst the reduced running times look attractive on paper, they're rarely achieved, particularly in the southbound direction where trains often get held at the various conflicting junctions or outside the likes of Rugby, Milton Keynes or Watford Junction.

 

[Bald Rick]

A couple of big TSRs on the WCML, and there have been a succession of incidents causing delay. For example today has been a disaster from start to finish - a unit with door problems early on, a freight that tripped the wires not long after, and then the fatality at Wolverton this afternoon.

 

[Pumbaa]

In short, the infrastructure is not in a good way at the moment. As BR says, the WCML can’t seem to get a break at the moment with big incidents. Performance has generally been appalling since the end of Autumn.

The fact the timetable can cope with persistent late running and hasn’t consistently fallen over where it may have done pre Dec is in itself reassuring.

I agree with other posters above, as the TT has really only been operating in full for the past few weeks, still early days as operations staff get to grips with it. Some daft regulation, late starts and incorrect platforming is to be expected for a period of time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Running time has been cut from 2:24ish down to 2:06 - 2:11 - removal of padding time which was crucial to service resilience. There is near zero dwell time, anywhere.

This puts the all stops local service just 20-30mins slower than an almost non-stop 125mph Pendolino.. Crazy

Wonder if they might need to add another pair of units and crew into the Crewe cycle (which I think now stands alone?)

 

[87015]

1656 semi-fast and three consecutive slow lines all 4 v 8 tonight, which will be great

 

[Nippy]

The 319s have been particularly troublesome in the last few weeks.

 

[Bald Rick]

The 319s have been particularly troublesome in the last few weeks.

yep - I’ve seen a couple accelerating away from station stops this week. When I say ‘accelerating’ I mean ‘dribbling’.

 

[Bletchleyite]

yep - I’ve seen a couple accelerating away from station stops this week. When I say ‘accelerating’ I mean ‘dribbling’.

They were never particularly quick, they are somewhat underpowered. Any skin-covered rice puddings need not worry!

I do love the sound of them though, the harmonic between the transformer hum, the AC drive bits and the straight cut gears is lovely.

With regard to the delays/short forms, though, how long before the 730s appear? All the "car stop" signs seem in place for them now. That might help matters.

 

[Bald Rick]

They were never particularly quick, they are somewhat underpowered

oh I know, I used them daily for over a decade. However this was a different level of low acceleration. I swear it was overtaken by a passing glacier.

I do love the sound of them though, the harmonic between the transformer hum, the AC drive bits and the straight cut gears is lovely.

I really don’t. Most unpleasant!

 

[Bikeman78]

They were never particularly quick, they are somewhat underpowered. Any skin-covered rice puddings need not worry!

I do love the sound of them though, the harmonic between the transformer hum, the AC drive bits and the straight cut gears is lovely.

I think eight out of nine class 319s are diagrammed now which is heroic. I did a few trips to Northampton last year. I was lucky to get fast drivers on most runs. Full power from a stand and heavy on the brakes too. Even got the 1980s HST brake smell on one run. No Northern style notching up to be seen. It makes a big difference. Granted they are slow by modern standards.