LNR Penalty fare- tricked?!

[curiouscat67]

On I travelled from London Euston to Apsley via LNR, the ticket machine at Euston wasn’t letting me apply my rail card discount so member of staff told me to just board and purchase at next available opportunity. Whilst on the train, an inspector comes, I ask to buy a ticket and he said that I would have to pay for one online and he took down my details I didn’t think anything of it as they usually issue tickets and he did not say I was receiving a penalty fare only to pay the unpaid fare online! When I went to go and do this i saw the receipt/ ticket issued had been a penalty fare of £57 for not having a ticket- bare in mind the inspector said nothing about a fine, looking at the regulations for issuing penalties i would have been literally exempt since i couldn’t purchase a ticket and hadn’t had an opportunity to do so.Had i known he was issuing me a penalty not just an unpaid fare notice I would have told him what happened. I lost the receipt given so I was unable to fill out the appeals form or even pay the fine, since i gave my address i thought i would receive some follow up letter confirming the penalty, however nothing came in the post until a letter today which stated the fine had been increased to 100 since i hadn’t paid it in the past 21 days. I don’t know what to do whether to write a letter to them explaining what had happened I really don’t want to pay the fine because it is completely unfair and i had a valid basis for boarding the train since LNR staff by the gates had told me to do so?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Apr 2025 ==

*edit* i forgot to add the date this happened was march 12 i received the letter today (april 14th) but it was dated april 4th

 

[30907]

What railcard do you have, what ticket were you trying to buy, what time of day? This might help us work out why the machine wouldn't issue your ticket.

Meanwhile, as you haven't yet paid a fare or appealed (if I understand you correctly) you are in a difficult position: LNR could cancel the PF altogether and threaten you with prosecution - and check your ticket history for irregularities.
You might then be able to settle out of court but it would cost you more than the £107. It might be as well to pay up and then raise a complaint about the machine and ask for a refund.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The OP is past the deadline to appeal so paying up promptly would be very advisable however unfair it may seem, even if a complaint is raised later.

Knowing Euston I'm very surprised someone there would tell you to board.

 

[pedr]

I think that the unfortunate consequence of losing the Penalty Fare Notice is that you are now liable to pay the Penalty Fare. A railway agent might make a mistake and issue one which shouldn't be issued, but the way to remedy that is by appealing within the timescale and since you weren't able to do that because you didn't have the Notice, there's no meaningful way to challenge it now, except paying then writing a letter afterwards asking whether they'll consider refunding you, which is not really likely to work.

 

[WesternLancer]

On I travelled from London Euston to Apsley via LNR, the ticket machine at Euston wasn’t letting me apply my rail card discount so member of staff told me to just board and purchase at next available opportunity. Whilst on the train, an inspector comes, I ask to buy a ticket and he said that I would have to pay for one online and he took down my details I didn’t think anything of it as they usually issue tickets and he did not say I was receiving a penalty fare only to pay the unpaid fare online! When I went to go and do this i saw the receipt/ ticket issued had been a penalty fare of £57 for not having a ticket- bare in mind the inspector said nothing about a fine, looking at the regulations for issuing penalties i would have been literally exempt since i couldn’t purchase a ticket and hadn’t had an opportunity to do so.Had i known he was issuing me a penalty not just an unpaid fare notice I would have told him what happened. I lost the receipt given so I was unable to fill out the appeals form or even pay the fine, since i gave my address i thought i would receive some follow up letter confirming the penalty, however nothing came in the post until a letter today which stated the fine had been increased to 100 since i hadn’t paid it in the past 21 days. I don’t know what to do whether to write a letter to them explaining what had happened I really don’t want to pay the fine because it is completely unfair and i had a valid basis for boarding the train since LNR staff by the gates had told me to do so?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Apr 2025 ==

*edit* i forgot to add the date this happened was march 12 i received the letter today (april 14th) but it was dated april 4th

There’s a ticket office at Euston still I assume. If the ticket machine would not sell you the ticket you were trying to buy you could have asked at the ticket office for it.

The problem you have is no proof you were told to board the train and buy it later.

If this was a penalty fare and you’ve lost the paperwork and missed an appeal deadline I suggest it’s best to pay it because if not I can see the cost and hassle to you just increasing.

 

[Silverlinky]

Its obviously not a "penalty fare" as per the regulations as it would be £100+. A standard single would be a little over £13 so no idea where the £57 comes from.

You say "the ticket machine at Euston"..... which one? There are ones down by the barrier, ones at the top of the ramp and I would think others on the station too. As 30907 says there are a number of variables here which you haven't mentioned, but even so I don't see how you would ever be "exempt".

 

[AlterEgo]

Its obviously not a "penalty fare" as per the regulations as it would be £100+. A standard single would be a little over £13 so no idea where the £57 comes from.

A penalty fare can only be issued to the next station call, and is £50 if paid promptly, plus the fare. That might explain it.

 

[Silverlinky]

A penalty fare can only be issued to the next station call, and is £50 if paid promptly, plus the fare. That might explain it.

Yes I see that now, the £50 is if paid within 21 days plus whatever fare, at that price the OP must have been "caught" between Euston and Harrow. Then they would/should have been offered the opportunity to buy a ticket for the rest of the journey between Harrow and Apsley.

On the LNR website it suggests that if the ticket office is closed and the machines are not working then you must buy a ticket from their website or app prior to boarding, if unable to do so you must approach the conductor as soon as possible.

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes I see that now, the £50 is if paid within 21 days plus whatever fare, at that price the OP must have been "caught" between Euston and Harrow. Then they would/should have been offered the opportunity to buy a ticket for the rest of the journey between Harrow and Apsley.

Possibly. However the are unable to make an appeal, so regardless of the details the discussion is sadly academic now.

On the LNR website it suggests that if the ticket office is closed and the machines are not working then you must buy a ticket from their website or app prior to boarding, if unable to do so you must approach the conductor as soon as possible.

It’s probable that the OP was trying to obtain a railcard discount which wasn’t compatible with their journey, for example at a time when the discount is not valid. They haven’t clarified what they were trying to do.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Given that:

- The Penalty Fare notice has been lost; and
- The 21-day period in which to lodge an appeal has passed

I think the best way forward is to pay the Penalty Fare at the higher rate of £107 to prevent the matter from escalating. Had we been able to see the PF notice it's possible we might have noticed a technical reason invalidating it but without it we can't really assist.

 

[30907]

On the LNR website it suggests that if the ticket office is closed and the machines are not working then you must buy a ticket from their website or app prior to boarding, if unable to do so you must approach the conductor as soon as possible.

Is that compatible with the National Rail Conditions of Travel?

It’s probable that the OP was trying to obtain a railcard discount which wasn’t compatible with their journey, for example at a time when the discount is not valid. They haven’t clarified what they were trying to do.

My suspicion too, but the OP will be able to tell us otherwise.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is that compatible with the National Rail Conditions of Travel?

It arguably isn't, but even following the NRCoT I suspect the OP had the possibility to buy a ticket, and I am really struggling with what member of staff would have given authority to travel from by the TVMs rather than simply assisting with their use as I'd be astonished if they did.

I think we are missing some key elements of the story here.

 

[island]

It arguably isn't, but even following the NRCoT I suspect the OP had the possibility to buy a ticket, and I am really struggling with what member of staff would have given authority to travel from by the TVMs rather than simply assisting with their use as I'd be astonished if they did.

I think we are missing some key elements of the story here.

Indeed. I concur with other recommendations to pay up.