LNER Train Hits "Rubbish"

[Deepgreen]

I'm on a train friom Edinburgh to KX, which had a 26 minute delay near Morpeth when it stopped and it was announed that "some rubbish had wrapped around the train". A line block was taken to allow the driver to check and I saw him return along the 'six foot' to the cab with the remains of what looked like a smallish plastic carrier bag which was announced as having "wrapped around the wheels". My question is; what is regarded as posing a danger when hit - surely trains must hit, for example, plastic bags very often? Is there a standard instruction to check (perhaps subject to driver discretion?) or do TOCS have different procedures? While I am not in any way impugning our driver, the incident seemed very OTT for an encounter with a plastic bag.

 

[mpthomson]

On something like an 800 it may well depend on exactly the bag has wrapped around in terms of sensors etc. Sounds like there's been an alert in the cab which has led the driver to stop.

 

[Deepgreen]

On something like an 800 it may well depend on exactly the bag has wrapped around in terms of sensors etc. Sounds like there's been an alert in the cab which has led the driver to stop.

OK, thanks. We left York 32L and the TM said we would "probably be able to make up time as we are non-stop to KX". With almost no slack in the schedule from York to KX and having lost our path, I can't think how it was thought time could be made up!

We are now, predictably, 45L and still losing more time. I wish staff would stop raising false hopes about making up time like this - today's railway simply doesn't permit it without omitting stops, etc.

 

[Horizon22]

OK, thanks. We left York 32L and the TM said we would "probably be able to make up time as we are non-stop to KX". We are now, predictably, 45L and still losing more time. I wish staff would stop raising false hopes about making up time like this - today's railway simply doesn't permit it without omitting stops, etc.

The TM did say "probably" and doesn't have a crystal ball! Omitting stops on infrequent intercity services is not as good a service recovery option as reforming at termini and sometimes absorbing the delay with turnaround amendments compared to a metro operator.

 

[skyhigh]

While I am not in any way impugning our driver, the incident seemed very OTT for an encounter with a plastic bag.

Nothing to do with your driver.

Train going the other way reported a hessian sack stuck in one of your wheelsets, as a result your train was stopped so your driver could inspect. Obviously the report was incorrect but made in good faith.

 

[Purple Train]

Plastic bags can also be an issue if caught in pantographs etc. - I was once on a train which was cancelled at Burnham (about as useful for onward connections as the Restaurant at the End of the Universe) due to a plastic bag caught in the "elbow" of the pantograph, but the train then sped off ECS... never did work that one out, but I'm sure there was a sensible reason.

 

[AlterEgo]

Nothing to do with your driver.

Train going the other way reported a hessian sack stuck in one of your wheelsets, as a result your train was stopped so your driver could inspect. Obviously the report was incorrect but made in good faith.

The report may not have been incorrect at the time but the hessian sack may have broken free after the fact.

 

[Deepgreen]

The TM did say "probably" and doesn't have a crystal ball! Omitting stops on infrequent intercity services is not as good a service recovery option as reforming at termini and sometimes absorbing the delay with turnaround amendments compared to a metro operator.

No, a train that has lost its path and has no stops to omit, nor any slack time in the schedule CANNOT make up time and will almost certainly lose more, as has happened (now 55L). Staff on today's railway should not give any hope of making up time in these circumstances as it is impossible (speed limiting prevents it).

 

[Deepgreen]

Nothing to do with your driver.

Train going the other way reported a hessian sack stuck in one of your wheelsets, as a result your train was stopped so your driver could inspect. Obviously the report was incorrect but made in good faith.

Yes, and I made it clear I wasn't impugning him.

 

[transportphoto]

No, a train that has lost its path and has no stops to omit, nor any slack time in the schedule CANNOT make up time and will almost certainly lose more, as has happened (now 55L). Staff on today's railway should not give any hope of making up time in these circumstances as it is impossible (speed limiting prevents it).

Let’s not get hung up on this - it’s really not a big deal and I’m struggling to understand your frustration. They may not have the depth of insight you have - judging these things comes with experience and people don’t always get it right.

 

[Deepgreen]

Let’s not get hung up on this - it’s really not a big deal and I’m struggling to understand your frustration. They may not have the depth of insight you have - judging these things comes with experience and people don’t always get it right.

I'm not blaming the TM, but there should be a blanket instruction not to give hope of making up time when it's impossible. It's simply unhelpful and contributes to the impression that drivers have the god-like ability to remedy delays like this (in, for example, the 1960s, drivers might ignore speed limits etc., to regain time but that is from a different era), when they obviously don't.

I am surprised you can't understand my frustration at misleading information being given out to already-irritated passengers, but so be it.

 

[saismee]

Plastic bags can also be an issue if caught in pantographs etc. - I was once on a train which was cancelled at Burnham (about as useful for onward connections as the Restaurant at the End of the Universe) due to a plastic bag caught in the "elbow" of the pantograph, but the train then sped off ECS... never did work that one out, but I'm sure there was a sensible reason.

Better to detrain onto the platform rather than the track! I imagine they determined it was fine to proceed without damaging OHLE, and if the pantograph machine failed then they'd need a rescue which would've been needed anyway if they didn't attempt to move it on its own.

 

[transportphoto]

I'm not blaming the TM, but there should be a blanket instruction not to give hope of making up time when it's impossible.
[…]
I am surprised you can't understand my frustration at misleading information being given out to already-irritated passengers, but so be it.

Let’s agree to disagree. I doubt many people thought much into it and accept the situation for what it is.

 

[westcoaster]

I'm on a train friom Edinburgh to KX, which had a 26 minute delay near Morpeth when it stopped and it was announed that "some rubbish had wrapped around the train". A line block was taken to allow the driver to check and I saw him return along the 'six foot' to the cab with the remains of what looked like a smallish plastic carrier bag which was announced as having "wrapped around the wheels". My question is; what is regarded as posing a danger when hit - surely trains must hit, for example, plastic bags very often? Is there a standard instruction to check (perhaps subject to driver discretion?) or do TOCS have different procedures? While I am not in any way impugning our driver, the incident seemed very OTT for an encounter with a plastic bag.

One bad side affect of any kind of object wrapped around wheels and bogies is, it can and does kick up ballast.
That can then smash windows on your train and on passing trains. Better to remove it before it causes issues.

Will have been reported by a passing train.

 

[RiverDon]

As a driver if you hit something or you're told by the signaller there might be a problem with your train, you can't just say "Well it's probably nothing" carry on and ignore it. You have to stop and examine the train. It's not always obvious from the cab. Yes it might have just been a small carrier bag this time but the driver doesn't know that until they go back and look, and the guard only knows - and can only announce to the passengers - what the driver tells them. The traincrew are looking out for your safety.

 

[StephenHunter]

The TM did say "probably" and doesn't have a crystal ball! Omitting stops on infrequent intercity services is not as good a service recovery option as reforming at termini and sometimes absorbing the delay with turnaround amendments compared to a metro operator.

You can get crystal balls surprisingly cheaply these days on Amazon.

I'd imagine that this is a major problem in some countries, where refuse is disposed even less carefully than here.

 

[WTT Gremlin]

I'm on a train friom Edinburgh to KX, which had a 26 minute delay near Morpeth when it stopped and it was announed that "some rubbish had wrapped around the train". A line block was taken to allow the driver to check and I saw him return along the 'six foot' to the cab with the remains of what looked like a smallish plastic carrier bag which was announced as having "wrapped around the wheels". My question is; what is regarded as posing a danger when hit - surely trains must hit, for example, plastic bags very often? Is there a standard instruction to check (perhaps subject to driver discretion?) or do TOCS have different procedures? While I am not in any way impugning our driver, the incident seemed very OTT for an encounter with a plastic bag.

As I understand the design, the brake disk of an IET is in effect the dish of the wheel. So if you'd like to entrust the safety of many hundreds of passengers on what braking ability of the contents and material of that debris then you are a far more brave person that I.