LNER thinks it serves Devon

[RailWonderer]

XC if they were better at publicity could claim Devon and the stunning north ECML.

 

[Calthrop]

The matter of the East Coast Main Line being in the opinion of some, scenically unexciting; and "artful tricks" on the advertising scene; brings to mind, doings involving the "old" (1923 -- 48) LNER. That undertaking's publicity department were aware that although their rail system served some areas of magnificent scenery; it is an undeniable fact that the eastern side of this island, especially in England, tends to be more low-lying and less scenically exciting than parts further west. The LNER's publicity folks therefore sought to "play to their railway's strengths" by focusing on the also established fact that -- certainly most of a century ago -- the eastern side of Great Britain got overall less rain, than the western ditto. They thus wooed potential takers of summer holidays, by emphasising that the LNER served G.B.'s "drier side" -- making this into a definite slogan.

 

[Purple Train]

Can’t think of any inspiring features heading to Norwich though, apologies to anyone who loves Suffolk and Norfolk

How very dare you! The country end of Essex and Norfolk and Suffolk are absolutely brilli-

Actually, I agree with you. The train doesn't exactly journey through the most scenic bits, although I like the run through Kelvedon.

 

[D6130]

The train doesn't exactly journey through the most scenic bits, although I like the run through Kelvedon.

IIRC, the section across the River Stour at Manningtree - on the edge of the 'Constable Country' - is quite pretty, although the branch from there to Harwich is considerably more scenic than the main line.

 

[Purple Train]

IIRC, the section across the River Stour at Manningtree - on the edge of the 'Constable Country' - is quite pretty, although the branch from there to Harwich is considerably more scenic than the main line.

Indeed, the branch lines through Constable country are splendid, and I love them - it's just the main line seems to studiously avoid them!

 

[nw1]

While the ECML isn't spectacular, I do remember that it is not without interest.

I would like to qualify this by stating that I last travelled on it in 1993, but: in clear weather you do get some interesting expansive views over the flat country towards hills in the distance, both in Yorkshire and in the Newark/Retford area.

I remember looking across at the North York Moors in the distance from the Vale of York, and similarly, further south, looking across at Lincoln Cathedral in the distance and the hills around Lincoln, and also the escarpment to the west, towards Rutland.

Plus (if you find this interesting, I know it's not pretty!) there were the massive power stations of the Trent Valley which loomed up from the distance and were close to the railway. Remember this was in 1993 though, I have the feeling most if not all have gone now.

The WCML likewise is not without interest. The Trent Valley section is perhaps rather similar to the Trent Valley section of the ECML, and the section between Rugby and Milton Keynes has wide views over rolling hills for quite a bit of the time. Then south of Milton Keynes you have the chalk escarpment round Tring (not sure if it's still the Chilterns here, but basically the same geological formation), the section by the canal round Berkhamsted/Hemel Hempstead, and of course plenty of interest in terms of both railway and modern urban architecture (again not always pretty, but perhaps interesting) once you're inbound from Watford.

I will, however, say that I found the MML between Bedford and Leicester rather dull. The countryside was flat but there were none of the wide, expansive views which typify the Newark/Retford area or the Vale of York. You could typically see little more than a mile, but also the countryside wasn't pretty enough for more intimate views (though admittedly it was Feb, so not at its best). Between Leicester and Nottingham it was more interesting - and that's my northern limit on the MML. Never been to Sheffield by rail (full stop).

The GWML, again the Vale of White Horse section has that same expansive wide views quality. ISTR the section west of Swindon, towards Bristol Parkway was less interesting.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 May 2023 ==

IIRC, the section across the River Stour at Manningtree - on the edge of the 'Constable Country' - is quite pretty, although the branch from there to Harwich is considerably more scenic than the main line.

I've only done (part of) the GEML once, from Liverpool Street to Colchester, and only in one direction. It was April 2001, and it was a 312, which was interesting in itself - an unusual early-peak-additional to Colchester Town calling only at Chelmsford and Colchester, if I remember right. I get the impression that this part of Essex is quite scenic, but sadly it was a wet day so not at its best. I only really remember Chelmsford and Colchester itself.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 May 2023 ==

Exactly this. And even on some of the viaducts are going to have noise barriers that will scupper the view. Setting conditions for a very boring journey. And not even a much faster one if you are going to Scotland.

Yes, that (HS2 route) will be dull with a capital D. I wonder if the existing routes will continue to pick up custom from people who want to actually see something as they travel?

A bit like some frustrating journeys I've experienced in Germany. Did Karlsruhe to Stuttgart (in 2009, en route for Garmisch via Munich) and was disappointed to find that most of the route was in tunnels. Very disappointing indeed, particularly in comparison with the Rhine route from Cologne all the way down to Freiburg and beyond, which is more or less continuously interesting - even outside the renowned Bonn-Koblenz section, it's wide open views across the Rhine valley further south to hills and mountains in the distance.

 

[Amos]

On the WCML, there are also views of the Oxford and Coventry canals between Rugby and Tamworth.

I agree about the Chiltern section, I always enjoy the views between Hemel and Leighton Buzzard.

I might be particularly strange,but I enjoy the view of the cement works at Rugby.

 

[DelW]

Then as you pass Bushey, a fairly spectacular view of parts of Watford and the DC line viaduct to the West. And I'm not sure exactly where, but somewhere north of Leighton Buzzard, I'm sure I've seen what looks like it could be a canal or river with various boats, which looks quite picturesque.

I might be particularly strange,but I enjoy the view of the cement works at Rugby.

Without wishing to denigrate anyone's opinions, there are some slightly, ahem, niche suggestions on here ...

 

[nw1]

Without wishing to denigrate anyone's opinions, there are some slightly, ahem, niche suggestions on here ...

One could argue that industrial architecture is more interesting than nothingness. And I say that as someone who does enjoy spectacular natural scenery, with the Garmisch-Innsbruck and Innsbruck-Switzerland (forget the station) routes being perhaps my favourites.

 

[gabrielhj07]

I must say I disagree with the southern ECML being bland. While it isn’t quite horseshoe pass, watching the rolling green fields pass by climbing stoke bank is a very pleasant way to spend a journey.

 

[Egg Centric]

There's also the Kilburn white horse from the southern ECML.

Got nuffing else though

 

[Mcr Warrior]

IIRC, the section across the River Stour at Manningtree - on the edge of the 'Constable Country' - is quite pretty, although the branch from there to Harwich is considerably more scenic than the main line.

Until, of course, you get to the final half mile, i.e. from Dovercourt to the end of the line at Harwich Town.

 

[nw1]

There's also the Kilburn white horse from the southern ECML.

Got nuffing else though

Until I looked up where it was (North York Moors), I was momentarily I confused by "southern ECML", which I'd take to be south of Peterborough - assuming there was a white horse around Biggleswade or Sandy or somewhere like that. Didn't think there were any hills around there.

 

[DelW]

There's also the Kilburn white horse from the southern ECML.

Until I looked up where it was (North York Moors), I was momentarily I confused by "southern ECML", which I'd take to be south of Peterborough - assuming there was a white horse around Biggleswade or Sandy or somewhere like that. Didn't think there were any hills around there.

I saw that for the first time from an ECML train last weekend. Chalk figures are quite common across the Wessex downs, but I hadn't been aware of one that far north.

The northerly limit of the chalk outcrop is further south, roughly on a line from Filey to south of Malton, and Wikipedia says that the white is from artificial sources. There is a narrow limestone outcrop around that area of the North York Moors though.

 

[nw1]

I saw that for the first time from an ECML train last weekend. Chalk figures are quite common across the Wessex downs, but I hadn't been aware of one that far north.

The northerly limit of the chalk outcrop is further south, roughly on a line from Filey to south of Malton, and Wikipedia says that the white is from artificial sources. There is a narrow limestone outcrop around that area of the North York Moors though.

The North York Moors is wholly limestone isn't it? At least that's what I always assumed.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The North York Moors is wholly limestone isn't it? At least that's what I always assumed.

Multi-layered. Includes shales, sandstone and limestone.

 

[D6130]

There's also the Kilburn white horse from the southern ECML.

Got nuffing else though

York and Doncaster Minsters? (....and Selby Abbey prior to the 1983 opening of the diversionary route).

 

[nw1]

Multi-layered. Includes shales, sandstone and limestone.

Ah ok , thanks.

I always thought it was limestone, essentially the northeastern end of the long limestone escarpment which extends up from the Dorset Coast - but then again I was confused by the heath-like terrain on the escarpment followed by the Coast to Coast walk, eastwards of Ingleby Cross (Carlton Moor, Cringle End, etc) as that is more typical of sandy soil.

 

[Deepgreen]

Back, perhaps, to the topic - this is so typical of today's lazy media and PR outputs, where a failure to check things is rife and even the BBC is now in the position where several errors a day is normal, which would have been unthinkable a few decades ago.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Am I the only one who doesn't read LNER's tweet as claiming that that view is from their train on the ECML?

1) I don't read it like that. It's an image from the national campaign, and LNER are just saying they have some good views, not "look at this fantastic view"

2) I would have absolutely no idea where that location was from that image anyway. I'd bet that a pretty large proportion of the population would have no idea where the image was either.

 

[zwk500]

Am I the only one who doesn't read LNER's tweet as claiming that that view is from their train on the ECML?

1) I don't read it like that. It's an image from the national campaign, and LNER are just saying they have some good views, not "look at this fantastic view"

2) I would have absolutely no idea where that location was from that image anyway. I'd bet that a pretty large proportion of the population would have no idea where the image was either.

I agree - while I recognise that the image is most likely the South Devon Sea Wall I also recognise that I'm more clued up on stuff like that than the people the tweet is aimed at - who are presumably less regular users of rail. And yes, it's LNER sharing a general promotional team, no different to if there's a Premier League football campaign and everybody from Bournemouth to Newcastle will tweet about it.

That's not to say these sort of mistakes haven't been made before. NR had an internal intranet page that featured Amsterdam Centraal very prominently (the training intranet, if anybody is interested). They also put a strike infographic up on twitter that had a fairly generic German station as the background up a few months ago. Again, 99.9% of the population would have neither noticed nor cared.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Am I the only one who doesn't read LNER's tweet as claiming that that view is from their train on the ECML?

Maybe . The actual tweet is here. It says

Not to brag but we have some magnificent views on our route! From greenery to beautiful beaches, there’s something stunning to see from your seat as you travel 125mph. Next time you’re travelling, take a moment to gaze out the window and wonder.

If I read that text, I'd certainly expect and assume that the accompanying photo would show something that you can actually see from an LNER train. That's kinda implied by the context even if it isn't stated explicitly. So the fact that it doesn't certainly strikes me as misleading, to say the least - especially since, as you correctly point out, most people won't realise that the photo is of a view that you can't see from LNER trains.

 

[D6130]

I agree - while I recognise that the image is most likely the South Devon Sea Wall I also recognise that I'm more clued up on stuff like that than the people the tweet is aimed at

Are you sure it's not the ECML between Burntisland and Kinghorn?

 

[zwk500]

Are you sure it's not the ECML between Burntisland and Kinghorn?

A rather generous description of the Fife Circle there

 

[Gaelan]

A rather generous description of the Fife Circle there

I’ve always thought of the ECML as extending through the (east branch of the) Fife Circle up to Aberdeen.

 

[zwk500]

I’ve always thought of the ECML as extending through the (east branch of the) Fife Circle up to Aberdeen.

To me (and I'm far from an authoritative source) the ECML is King's Cross to Edinburgh only.

 

[snowball]

I’ve always thought of the ECML as extending through the (east branch of the) Fife Circle up to Aberdeen.

That seems to be a widespread usage in Scotland, and by Scots on these forums.

 

[Andy Pacer]

It's clearly a sharing error, but I felt it ironic given how utterly, utterly drab and boring the ECML south of Durham is.

Missing few words there ... "in my opinion"

 

[ruaival]

To me (and I'm far from an authoritative source) the ECML is King's Cross to Edinburgh only.

It would appear to be correct in the Engineer Line Codes with ECM - the assigned primary route of the original L&NER - ending at Edinburgh Waverley Station and "ECN" East Coast (Northern) Line covering Edinburgh to Aberdeen.

source: railway codes.org.uk

 

[nw1]

To me (and I'm far from an authoritative source) the ECML is King's Cross to Edinburgh only.

That was always my assumption.

I have travelled north of Edinburgh on two occasions (1993 to Leuchars, and 2005 to Dundee) and it didn't seem like a main InterCity line, but rather a "regional rail" type route with a mix of 158s on the faster services and 150s on the stoppers - and just the occasional through HST.