LNER strike day services: Who operates them?

[nedchester]

Could it be that some people just do not agree with strikes and continue to work. For a period of time in my teaching career I was a member of the NUT. I never voted for strike or industrial action nor did I participate in it as I found it morally wrong to disadvantage pupils or their parents and neither was a I prepared to give up my wages!

Thus I carried on working. I imagine the same could be true with some rail staff. Some of my colleagues did not agree with me but they did respect the reasons for my decision.

So you were a scab then?

I was an NUT rep for much of my teaching career and it frustrated me that members refused to support action that had been legally balloted. And that lack of support manifests itself in the mess that teaching is in now.

As for mangers I remember one meeting towards the end of my career we had about work to rule and how we were going to implement it. One member of the senior team who was still a member of the union decided to attend (having never attended a meeting before and also being a scab). Inevitably, many of the staff were intimidated by his presence. Yes he was entitled to be there but it was obvious he was a mole for the bullying head of the school.

 

[43066]

So you were a scab then?

I was an NUT rep for much of my teaching career and it frustrated me that members refused to support action that had been legally balloted. And that lack of support manifests itself in the mess that teaching is in now.

As for mangers I remember one meeting towards the end of my career we had about work to rule and how we were going to implement it. One member of the senior team who was still a member of the union decided to attend (having never attended a meeting before and also being a scab). Inevitably, many of the staff were intimidated by his presence. Yes he was entitled to be there but it was obvious he was a mole for the bullying head of the school.

At the very least people should leave the union if they’re going to continue working during action!

 

[nedchester]

At the very least people should leave the union if they’re going to continue working during action!

Which was my line as a rep to those unwilling to support any action.

 

[dk1]

At the very least people should leave the union if they’re going to continue working during action!

If it was me (and it would never be I might add) I would expect to have my union membership cancelled although I would resign from it anyway. Once done that stigma stays with you through the rest of your career & even into retirement. You are always known as that one that came in. Easy to say ignore it but it certainly is something that requires very thick skin indeed.

 

[Mojo]

Are you sure on that? As I understand it here managers cannot be in ASLEF. I assumed that was nationwide but maybe it's a local policy.

At at least one company there is a specific branch of Aslef for Managers and they have seats on the appropriate councils for both Industrial and H&S.

Your Branch | district-8

www.aslefdistrict8.org

They also represent some staff in service control too.

 

[John Luxton]

At the very least people should leave the union if they’re going to continue working during action!

No I think not.

People need unions they can offer useful back up to the individual and things turn sour in particular in teaching if malicious allegations are made. I did actually leave the NUT and went back to what had been PAT by then renamed Voice which had a no strike rule.

In my time as a teacher I had three issues when I consulted the union. I found PAT/Voice much more supportive than I did the NUT. That was the reason I switched back.

I am not anti union at all and everyone should have the right to be in one. I just find industrial action, particularly strike action morally wrong.

I understand some would see my views being wrong but this is not the 19th Century. People have so many legal protections these days.

As the old saying goes jaw-jaw is better than war. Applies as much to industrial relations as it does to international relations.

Perhaps we need a situation where there are union reps on company boards? Am I correct in thinking this is the case in Germany. I stand to be corrected if wrong but once recall reading that was why Germany had better industrial relations than the UK.

 

[Carlisle]

At the very least people should leave the union if they’re going to continue working during action!

We may disagree on hundreds of issues but I completely agree with that

 

[LAX54]

The main railway dispute thread is closed so had to start this. On the strike day of Saturday 30th July LNER were operating a limited service from Edinburgh Waverley to King's Cross despite LNER drivers being on strike.

My question is who was actually driving those trains? Managers are presumably ASLEF members too.

The news on ITV mentioned limited services on the next strike days by other TOCs. Again, who's driving those trains? Has the government managed the impossible and found a source of competent agency drivers?

Agency do not exist, and never will, but as others have said Driver Managers, Non-Union and RMT members will be out and about.

 

[nedchester]

No I think not.

People need unions they can offer useful back up to the individual and things turn sour in particular in teaching if malicious allegations are made. I did actually leave the NUT and went back to what had been PAT by then renamed Voice which had a no strike rule.

In my time as a teacher I had three issues when I consulted the union. I found PAT/Voice much more supportive than I did the NUT. That was the reason I switched back.

I am not anti union at all and everyone should have the right to be in one. I just find industrial action, particularly strike action morally wrong.

I understand some would see my views being wrong but this is not the 19th Century. People have so many legal protections these days.

As the old saying goes jaw-jaw is better than war. Applies as much to industrial relations as it does to international relations.

Perhaps we need a situation where there are union reps on company boards? Am I correct in thinking this is the case in Germany. I stand to be corrected if wrong but once recall reading that was why Germany had better industrial relations than the UK.

Then you do not understand the history of the union movement. It is not an insurance policy!

Obviously you found your place in Voice which actually had no voice.

As for Germany yes workers representatives / unions are on company boards and leads to better Industrial Relations. Something the UK could learn from.

 

[railfan99]

I don't want to get ahead in time, and realise that moderators are likely to start a specific thread, but does anyone yet know if there are to be strike days in September 2022 and if so when?

 

[43066]

People need unions they can offer useful back up to the individual and things turn sour in particular in teaching if malicious allegations are made. I did actually leave the NUT and went back to what had been PAT by then renamed Voice which had a no strike rule.

Similarly on the railway many do view the railway unions largely as an insurance policy. That doesn’t mean actively going against action democratically decided on by your fellow members - indeed actually undermining said action to line your own pockets - is morally acceptable to many.

If you’re against strike action you’re quite free to vote against it but, if 90%+ of your colleagues are in favour, you should accept it and go along with it.

Perhaps we need a situation where there are union reps on company boards? Am I correct in thinking this is the case in Germany. I stand to be corrected if wrong but once recall reading that was why Germany had better industrial relations than the UK.

Perhaps there should be. There are many ways in which industrial relations in this country could be improved, sadly we seem to be going in the same direction as America.

We may disagree on hundreds of issues but I completely agree with that

Pleased to hear it .

 

[John Luxton]

Then you do not understand the history of the union movement. It is not an insurance policy!

Obviously you found your place in Voice which actually had no voice.

As for Germany yes workers representatives / unions are on company boards and leads to better Industrial Relations. Something the UK could learn from.

Thanks for confirming I was correct over Germany. I do think not only should we learn from Germany but perhaps for large employers it should be compulsory for union reps to be appointed to boards.

With regard to PAT/Voicee they were excellent compared to NUT.

I started out in the predecessor union and near the start of my career in 1980s they fought my corner with a satisfactory outcome. A few years before I retired when I had another issue being accused by a fellow member of staff of covering up for an alleged misdemeanour by the deputy head. Union again stepped up to the mark and there was a satisfactory outcome.

Unfortunately the NUT were totally disinterested in a mid career problem I experienced with a head teacher. Problem was solved by the HT moving on and the replacement putting the matter right.

 

[dk1]

I don't want to get ahead in time, and realise that moderators are likely to start a specific thread, but does anyone yet know if there are to be strike days in September 2022 and if so when?

Rumours of during the Tory Party Conference but it’s only that. Nobody has a clue to be honest.

 

[Annetts key]

I have only ever come across one or two train drivers in my entire career who have behaved like that. Some might not be vocal or join in any protest, but this grade tends to tow the line in almost 100% solidarity to whatever the union decides,

As do the vast majority in all the grades of workers represented by the RMT.

Unfortunately, if you have principles and the other side (management) is not listening and negotiating with you, you get to the stage where a line has to be drawn. The railway unions (RMT, TSSA, ASLEF) are now at that point.

Some informal discussions between RMT and Network Rail started in autumn last year. So it’s nearly a year since the first discussions started.

The unions only options are to put up with whatever the companies want, which is absolutely not what the ordinary workers want. Or to take industrial action to try to get the companies back to the negotiating table with a more reasonable attitude to negotiation.

 

[ainsworth74]

The question has been answered so I think we're done here now. We don't need to go over the same ground again.