LNER Stevenage Pickup/Setdown

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You mean Google & Wikipeida are wrong (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Leeds+Cathedral/@53.8007239,-1.546708,19.92z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x48795c1cba856725:0x3eb1bf7806a1005c!8m2!3d53.8007935!4d-1.5467418!16s/m/027hv7r?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTIwOS4wIKXMDSoKLDEwMDc5MjA2OUgBUAM=) & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds_Cathedral

Unless you are the sort who ignores the Roman Catholic church and only consider those catherdrals built for Church of England

A large number of Anglican cathedrals were not built for the Church of England…. As for the historic association of city status with cathedrals, the Roman Catholics were not allowed to build cathedrals (or even churches) for most of that time, and certainly wouldn’t have had status in public life.

 

[cats_five]

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You mean Google & Wikipeida are wrong (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Leeds+Cathedral/@53.8007239,-1.546708,19.92z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x48795c1cba856725:0x3eb1bf7806a1005c!8m2!3d53.8007935!4d-1.5467418!16s/m/027hv7r?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTIwOS4wIKXMDSoKLDEwMDc5MjA2OUgBUAM=) & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds_Cathedral

Unless you are the sort who ignores the Roman Catholic church and only consider those catherdrals built for Church of England

RC cathedrals would not have been taken into account before 1889 in determining if a place was a city or not, so I didn't take them into account for Leeds etc.

 

[sheff1]

I think in context of other services this is fine, Durham isn't a major city. It wouldn't be one at all if it didn't have a cathedral

Seemingly this was the sort of thinking applied by someone unfamiliar with the reality of demand to/from Durham (as explained above) which resulted in withdrawal of the well used direct link.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I think in context of other services this is fine, Durham isn't a major city. It wouldn't be one at all if it didn't have a cathedral.

Durham is an important city, both regionally and nationwide. The University means the city punches well above its weight economically. The University also means that the trains are well used.

But even in pure population terms it is an important stop, the city itself having a population of over 50,000. County Durham has a population of almost 900,000, although the southern half of the county would gravitate more towards Darlington as the railhead.

Seemingly this was the sort of thinking applied by someone unfamiliar with the reality of demand to/from Durham (as explained above) which resulted in withdrawal of the well used direct link.

We saw similar levels of bone-headedness when, in the early versions of VHF on the WCML, Lancaster lost quite a few of its station calls on the London expresses, since reinstated. Lancaster is a very similar city to Durham in terms of importance and demographics. Hopefully the shredding of the timetable at Durham will be revisited also.

The change was consulted, evidently there were not many representations suggestimg that the chanegd calling pattern would be a problem.

Or, as is more likely the case, those representations were disregarded in favour of the decision which was made. We saw how much weight the railway gave to representations made in places like Northumberland, Durham, and Nottinghamshire (i.e. none). I think the only effect that any of those representations made was the addition of one single LNER service in the morning peak from Darlington and Durham to Newcastle.

Any representations made by those in Stevenage would be even more easily disregarded because of GTR.

But the industry does love a pointless and largely unenforceable restriction.

 

[Hadders]

Lots of cancellations on Thameslink this morning due to a signal failure at Foxton. Around half of the trains between Stevenage and London are cancelled, the driver has just declassified the front 1st class compartment of the train I’m travelling on because it’s packed.

Meanwhile during my extended wait at Stevenage due to cancellations, I observed two LNER trains arrive, both with many seats available but was told set down only restrictions still applied.

Some pragmatic decision making needs to take place during disruption.

 

[jon0844]

Lots of cancellations on Thameslink this morning due to a signal failure at Foxton. Around half of the trains between Stevenage and London are cancelled, the driver has just declassified the front 1st class compartment of the train I’m travelling on because it’s packed.

Meanwhile during my extended wait at Stevenage due to cancellations, I observed two LNER trains arrive, both with many seats available but was told set down only restrictions still applied.

Some pragmatic decision making needs to take place during disruption.

LNER has allowed use of its trains since the timetable change when there has been disruption, but it seems to be on a case by case basis rather than automatic acceptance that would have applied before under the 'CSL2' rules that gives at least 90 minutes of acceptance on other services and routes, including local buses.

That assumes the delays were enough to trigger that level of course.

 

[Hadders]

LNER has allowed use of its trains since the timetable change when there has been disruption, but it seems to be on a case by case basis rather than automatic acceptance that would have applied before under the 'CSL2' rules that gives at least 90 minutes of acceptance on other services and routes, including local buses.

That assumes the delays were enough to trigger that level of course.

I refer you to post #157 about my journey when CSL2 had been declared.

 

[OneOfThe48]

I refer you to post #157 about my journey when CSL2 had been declared.

The main disruption was Royston - Cambridge, not Stevenage - London.

In practice, the cancellations to Thameslink services between Stevenage and London caused gaps of 30 mins between mainline (not via Hertford) trains and the LNER trains would’ve been preceded 10 mins earlier and 10 mins later by a GN or TL train into London

 

[Hadders]

The main disruption was Royston - Cambridge, not Stevenage - London.

But the disruption meant that half of the trains between Stevenage and London were cancelled, resulting in significant crowding on those trains that did run.

I let two LNER trains go between arriving at the station, and boarding the next TL service. Both LNER trains had a significant number of empty seats, the Thameslink train was packed to the point that the driver took it upon himself to declassify 1st class and manually announce this.

I’m capable of standing between Stevenage and London but there will be others for whom this would be a problem. It’s the sort of thing that doesn’t show the railway in a good light.

 

[Starmill]

But the disruption meant that half of the trains between Stevenage and London were cancelled, resulting in significant crowding on those trains that did run.

I let two LNER trains go between arriving at the station, and boarding the next TL service. Both LNER trains had a significant number of empty seats, the Thameslink train was packed to the point that the driver took it upon himself to declassify 1st class and manually announce this.

I’m capable of standing between Stevenage and London but there will be others for whom this would be a problem. It’s the sort of thing that doesn’t show the railway in a good light.

It really surprises me more people don't just get on when this happens.

 

[Kite159]

It really surprises me more people don't just get on when this happens.

Because they know some LNER staff they will be quick to jump on those passengers boarding at Stevenage to sell them a brand-new ticket from the last 'open' stop.

 

[Tester]

Because they know some LNER staff they will be quick to jump on those passengers boarding at Stevenage to sell them a brand-new ticket from the last 'open' stop.

On what basis would they be able to do that?

 

[Kite159]

On what basis would they be able to do that?

Some of their staff ignore the rules and do whatever they like knowing the chances of someone complaining will get told to bugger off (in a more passenger friendly manner) when they complain about being charged a new fare from Peterborough as they boarded at Stevenage.

 

[greatkingrat]

Because they know some LNER staff they will be quick to jump on those passengers boarding at Stevenage to sell them a brand-new ticket from the last 'open' stop.

Has anyone actually seen this happen, or is it just speculation?

 

[Tester]

Some of their staff ignore the rules and do whatever they like knowing the chances of someone complaining will get told to bugger off (in a more passenger friendly manner) when they complain about being charged a new fare from Peterborough as they boarded at Stevenage.

So, in other words, no basis?

 

[blimmo]

Some discussion of this here https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...strictions-affect-ticket-validity-how.282961/

I don't know if the new NRCoT changes have any effect of this though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Jan 2026 ==

There is also this thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ly-consequences-of-breaking-the-rules.246612/ which links to an actual instance where someone was charged for boarding a set down only service.

 

[Starmill]

Because they know some LNER staff they will be quick to jump on those passengers boarding at Stevenage to sell them a brand-new ticket from the last 'open' stop.

I can't imagine ordinary people have any idea of that happening to be honest.

So, in other words, no basis?

I can't see how they would have a basis in the NRCoT to charge for a journey that's longer and more expensive than the one that actually happened. This is different from in the other direction when there is obviously a clear basis to do that as it hasn't happened yet. Of course if you were stopped after you had left the train, well, there would still be nothing anyone could do.

 

[azOOOOOma]

Do many TMs do ticket checks between Stevenage and the Cross going southbound now? Or how about before the timetable change?

 

[Hadders]

Do many TMs do ticket checks between Stevenage and the Cross going southbound now? Or how about before the timetable change?

Before the timetable change, non-existent. Perhaps once in the last 20 years of using LNER and predecessors

 

[Failed Unit]

Do many TMs do ticket checks between Stevenage and the Cross going southbound now? Or how about before the timetable change?

I don’t see ticket checks that often going North, so will be amazed if they do it going South,

 

[dk1]

I don’t see ticket checks that often going North, so will be amazed if they do it going South,

Especially if you are Kings Cross based staff. I mean, why would you?

 

[Kite159]

Especially if you are Kings Cross based staff. I mean, why would you?

They will be cashing up and filling in the paperwork ready for a quick getaway

 

[jon0844]

I don’t see ticket checks that often going North, so will be amazed if they do it going South,

I can't see why anyone would really care about people going south, on the basis that everyone else is already seated (or standing in their own little space). Sure, there will likely be a few that plonk themselves down in first class and may well get in the way of others preparing to alight quickly (and now can't as quickly) but if the train is suitably crowded then staff aren't getting through anyway.

If the train is empty enough that staff can get through (including those cleaning tables and collecting rubbish) then it's not an issue.

Northbound I can understand if the train is packed from King's Cross and then becomes almost empty, but even that is less of an issue since LNER wants everyone booked on a specific train and reserving seats. There may well be checks made on leaving King's Cross as a result, but I really doubt anything will ever be done for those boarding at Stevenage for London.

To me it's really more about not having to accept or check contactless payment cards.

 

[dk1]

They will be cashing up and filling in the paperwork ready for a quick getaway

Not so much in the way of cashing up needed these days but yes. Bag packed and ready to run.

 

[Failed Unit]

I can't see why anyone would really care about people going south, on the basis that everyone else is already seated (or standing in their own little space). Sure, there will likely be a few that plonk themselves down in first class and may well get in the way of others preparing to alight quickly (and now can't as quickly) but if the train is suitably crowded then staff aren't getting through anyway.

If the train is empty enough that staff can get through (including those cleaning tables and collecting rubbish) then it's not an issue.

Northbound I can understand if the train is packed from King's Cross and then becomes almost empty, but even that is less of an issue since LNER wants everyone booked on a specific train and reserving seats. There may well be checks made on leaving King's Cross as a result, but I really doubt anything will ever be done for those boarding at Stevenage for London.

To me it's really more about not having to accept or check contactless payment cards.

On the new timetable it should only be a small number of passengers in the know anyway. The trains are not shown on the boards and as the timetable is totally new the average passenger won’t know the trains to Newcastle/ Harrogate and Bradford all stop at Stevenage.

However I suspect revenue lost is small compared to no checking after Stevenage. I was in coach C at the weekend. Normally in G or higher so the guard has normally checked that coach. I often as a result don’t get my ticket checked at all (apart from WGC barriers).

As you say all about contactless. It isn’t like the London - Reading issue where passengers are preventing people going beyond reading getting on.

 

[Bikeman78]

Lots of cancellations on Thameslink this morning due to a signal failure at Foxton. Around half of the trains between Stevenage and London are cancelled, the driver has just declassified the front 1st class compartment of the train I’m travelling on because it’s packed.

Meanwhile during my extended wait at Stevenage due to cancellations, I observed two LNER trains arrive, both with many seats available but was told set down only restrictions still applied.

Some pragmatic decision making needs to take place during disruption.

I'd have got on the first available southbound train.

 

[Table 25]

I am pleased to see that, during the very considerable disription today, LNER trains to Kings Cross are being shown on the "Live Departures from Stevenage" on the National Rail web site. Thankfully, I do not need to travel today, but presume that the information given to those arriving in order board trains at the affected stations is the same.

 

[xotGD]

a small number of passengers in the know anyway

Anyone standing on the platform will see "Next station: London King's Cross" on the side of the train.

Boarding the train would seem a perfectly rational thing to do.

 

[Failed Unit]

Anyone standing on the platform will see "Next station: London King's Cross" on the side of the train.

Boarding the train would seem a perfectly rational thing to do.

I was meaning heading North it is more challenging. At Kings Cross on the departure boards it is showing next stop Grantham and Newark Northgate. I don't know if it the stop is even advertised on the train as there is no need for it to be. However even if it was at Kings Cross you are very unlikely to have someone see it even if it was.

Agree at Stevenage they will see on the side of the train London Kings Cross, along with Do not board. However people by thier very nature will ignore that if they know there are no consequences. As others have said the only real way of catching some is doing a full revenue sweep after Stevenage. I can't see the train crew recognising a "new" passenger on a train with 200+ passengers on it.

 

[rmHawk765]

How strictly enforced are the rules on pick-up and set-down for Avanti services at Watford Jn? It's the closest thing we have to this.