LNER Stevenage Pickup/Setdown

[MCR247]

As has been discussed on here before LNER no longer want Stevenage - London (and return) passengers on their trains from December and so are adding pickup/setdown only restrictions onto their services.
It seems they might not have quite thought it through though, as LNER staff use the trains between these stations for both work and leisure purposes.

LNER have told staff they aren’t allowed to use the trains from December as it will set a bad example for passengers/cause conflict when passengers aren’t allowed to board but staff are, and ASLEF are now strongly pushing back on this.

ASLEF has written a robust letter to LNER, asking it withdraws the directive banning drivers from joining/alighting LNER services at Stevenage for residential duty and leisure purposes from 14/12. ASLEF claims that this may breach the H&S at work act.

From Chime Whistle Publishing on x: https://x.com/chimewhistle/status/1995905196707205150?s=46&t=gwtvH_rIOgpnh7HcYQZ_8A

 

[Cell2025]

If there's a way to muck it up the railway industry will sure as hell find it.

 

[High Dyke]

Hurrah. It means longer distance passengers have chance of a seat sooner.

 

[JordR]

Work surely is as much LNER's problem as the staff member, who will be being paid anyway?

The bad example probably stacks up for leisure purposes.

Any idea what the argument is for it breaching H&S law?

 

[Kite159]

From Chime Whistle Publishing

Sorry, but as soon as you start quoting that particular person, the entire post is worthless. It would be like quoting the Daily Mail as a source for Wikipedia articles.

----

As for staff being barred from boarding a LNER service at Stevenage, if they are off-duty and not in uniform, how would other passengers know they are a member of staff etc.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

A staff member travelling for leisure or recreational purposes - other than the fact they're not having to pay (!) - is a passenger, and if ordinary customers cannot get on, neither should they be able to. I agree with them on that. For work purposes it seems bizarre.

Why have they lumped the two together? As @Kite159 says, an off duty staff member would be out of uniform, and should follow the same rules as everyone else. But if they're in uniform it's quite obvious they're working and may have a reason for boarding the train to do with their next turn.

 

[Horizon22]

The issue with set-down / pick-up only requirements is that if they are not rigidly enforced (which has its own confrontational and customer experience implications), they eventually just get ignored and people catch on. Only more casual passengers will not see it on the CIS / journey planners (and even then they don't all show it as the TOC intends!) and not board.

They can be a little bit helpful where it's been a longer term practice (GWR and Reading) and there's a alternative on - for example - the next platform a few minutes later and there's a clear demarcation. But this might cause a lot of bad press.

 

[Kite159]

A staff member travelling for leisure or recreational purposes - other than the fact they're not having to pay (!) - is a passenger, and if ordinary customers cannot get on, neither should they be able to. I agree with them on that. For work purposes it seems bizarre.

Why have they lumped the two together? As @Kite159 says, an off duty staff member would be out of uniform, and should follow the same rules as everyone else. But if they're in uniform it's quite obvious they're working and may have a reason for boarding the train to do with their next turn.

And even if they are on duty, they probably won't be boarding or alighting at Stevenage.

Would be like Avanti staff boarding a London bound Pendo at Watford Junction, the only time it might happen if something is out of course and they are driving or being the Train Manager from London to Stevenage to hand over to another member of staff who would have been on the train from London but got caught up in delays.

 

[Mag_seven]

As has been discussed on here before LNER no longer want Stevenage - London (and return) passengers on their trains from December and so are adding pickup/setdown only restrictions onto their services.
It seems they might not have quite thought it through though, as LNER staff use the trains between these stations for both work and leisure purposes.

LNER have told staff they aren’t allowed to use the trains from December as it will set a bad example for passengers/cause conflict when passengers aren’t allowed to board but staff are, and ASLEF are now strongly pushing back on this.



From Chime Whistle Publishing on x: https://x.com/chimewhistle/status/1995905196707205150?s=46&t=gwtvH_rIOgpnh7HcYQZ_8A

I'm not sure about duty travel but there has always been a restriction for staff using pick up / set down only trains just like everybody else.

Staff Travel Restrictions

The Rail Delivery Group was set up in 2011 to provide leadership to Britain's rail industry, bringing together the owners of Britain's passenger train operators

www.raildeliverygroup.com

Trains shown in the passenger timetable with U (pick up only) stops cannot be used for alighting and those with S (set down only) stops cannot be used for joining at the stations designated.

 

[liamf656]

Sorry, but as soon as you start quoting that particular person, the entire post is worthless. It would be like quoting the Daily Mail as a source for Wikipedia articles.

I made the same point for the same Twitter user on a different subject and got backlash for it!!

 

[Starmill]

Staff travelling for leisure or to/from work are under the same rights and responsibilities as anyone else travelling on the railway is...

 

[Mattplans]

Why should staff be able to travel on services not available to customers for leisure purposes? How would this breach H&S at work. By all means, allow them to travel on the services for operational reasons

 

[Judith hambly]

The best bit will be when the Thameslink taking them to work is cancelled, and they can't use LNER, so the train leaving King's Cross is delayed waiting crew. And anyway whose going to stop the fare paying public

 

[MCR247]

Sorry, but as soon as you start quoting that particular person, the entire post is worthless. It would be like quoting the Daily Mail as a source for Wikipedia articles.

----

As for staff being barred from boarding a LNER service at Stevenage, if they are off-duty and not in uniform, how would other passengers know they are a member of staff etc.

I’ve only come across the account within the past few days so I don’t know much about them I’m afraid.

But as for the second half of your post, I don’t know why LNER have (seemingly) lumped them both in together.

 

[yorkie]

There are two ways to do pick up/set down only.

Firstly, the sensible approach taken by SWR/Greater Anglia; the trains are not advertised, you can't book them, but people are allowed to take them without fuss. This allows trains to depart early, avoids conflicts and minimises fuss. No arguments delaying the train.

Secondly, the alternative approach taken by Avanti, where passengers are barked at, and where conflicts can arise, potentially causing a delay and bringing the rail industry into even more disrepute than it already is.

LNER don't have to take the Avanti approach, however knowing the company ethos of LNER, they will be bitterly opposed to taking the SWR/GA approach. It's not in the company's nature to be pragmatic. The only way LNER will do this, is if they are forced to.

 

[Kite159]

.

There are two ways to do pick up/set down only.

Firstly, the sensible approach taken by SWR/Greater Anglia; the trains are not advertised, you can't book them, but people are allowed to take them without fuss. This allows trains to depart early, avoids conflicts and minimises fuss. No arguments delaying the train.

Secondly, the alternative approach taken by Avanti, where passengers are barked at, and where conflicts can arise, potentially causing a delay and bringing the rail industry into even more disrepute than it already is.

LNER don't have to take the Avanti approach, however knowing the company ethos of LNER, they will be bitterly opposed to taking the SWR/GA approach. It's not in the company's nature to be pragmatic. The only way LNER will do this, is if they are forced to.

I can sense LNER already having shouty staff lined up to create a hostile environment for when one of their trains calls there heading south.

Similar to TPE at Bolton, a quite unpleasant environment with all sorts of threats if someone shall dare board the Manchester Airport service and they must wait half an hour for the next Northern train due to multiple cancellations etc

 

[LowLevel]

Staff travelling for leisure or to/from work are under the same rights and responsibilities as anyone else travelling on the railway is...

To a degree - but not totally - for example with agreement from the relevant parties suitably rules trained staff can travel on empty coaching stock services.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

There are two ways to do pick up/set down only.

Firstly, the sensible approach taken by SWR/Greater Anglia; the trains are not advertised, you can't book them, but people are allowed to take them without fuss. This allows trains to depart early, avoids conflicts and minimises fuss. No arguments delaying the train.

Secondly, the alternative approach taken by Avanti, where passengers are barked at, and where conflicts can arise, potentially causing a delay and bringing the rail industry into even more disrepute than it already is.

LNER don't have to take the Avanti approach, however knowing the company ethos of LNER, they will be bitterly opposed to taking the SWR/GA approach. It's not in the company's nature to be pragmatic. The only way LNER will do this, is if they are forced to.

Unfortunately we already know which approach will be taken, certainly when boarding at Stevenage, because it has been demonstrated with two TOCs before. We know from Hull Trains and Lumo that staff bark at those trying to board “set down only.”

 

[Starmill]

To a degree - but not totally - for example with agreement from the relevant parties suitably rules trained staff can travel on empty coaching stock services.

Well yes but a very rare exception done in the course of work, so not really comparable with this case.

 

[Peterthegreat]

Don't LNER staff get (at least some) free travel on LNER services?
Therefore anyone travelling between Stevenage and London in the future may have to pay?

 

[A S Leib]

The best bit will be when the Thameslink taking them to work is cancelled, and they can't use LNER

That would make a big change from 2018, when I think LNER were dependent enough on staff commuting by train that they had Huntingdon calls to pick up staff who would otherwise have got cancelled Thameslink services.

 

[LowLevel]

Well yes but a very rare exception done in the course of work, so not really comparable with this case.

Personally I think it is shooting yourself in the foot to bar residential travel, as a starting point - because ultimately your staff will be needing to get to work and you've changed the goal posts and there has always been provision for that kind of thing in the form of staff trains and so on.

Leisure travel perhaps a different thing but again removing a perk that had always been available and basically saying "tough, you'll now have to pay for another operator" as the agreement with GTR is only for residential and duty travel is never going to go down well and you would expect unions who are there to represent their members to kick off about it.

 

[Starmill]

Personally I think it is shooting yourself in the foot to bar residential travel, as a starting point - because ultimately your staff will be needing to get to work and you've changed the goal posts and there has always been provision for that kind of thing in the form of staff trains and so on.

Leisure travel perhaps a different thing but again removing a perk that had always been available and basically saying "tough, you'll now have to pay for another operator" as the agreement with GTR is only for residential and duty travel is never going to go down well and you would expect unions who are there to represent their members to kick off about it.

I think both arguments apply equally well to the general public personally. And I obviously do include all LNER and GTR staff in that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Dec 2025 ==

Don't LNER staff get (at least some) free travel on LNER services?
Therefore anyone travelling between Stevenage and London in the future may have to pay?

Indeed so! Same as everyone else though.

 

[tumbledown]

If the GTR franchise expires next May, the situation as regards staff travel will presumably change again then.

 

[KNN]

Given that, at least at my TOC, the conditions of free travel are that you have to give up your seat for a paying customer I don't see it being the same as regular traveller. The reason the pick up/set down rules are in place is to stop people taking up seats for a minor part of the journey when other options are available (especially, I expect, wheelchair or bike spaces) and leaving those berths empty for most of the service as a result.

 

[Starmill]

Given that, at least at my TOC, the conditions of free travel are that you have to give up your seat for a paying customer I don't see it being the same as regular traveller. The reason the pick up/set down rules are in place is to stop people taking up seats for a minor part of the journey when other options are available (especially, I expect, wheelchair or bike spaces) and leaving those berths empty for most of the service as a result.

I think you've misunderstood. It's generally not the case currently and never has been. The reason they've done it is performance not capacity.

 

[bramling]

Given that, at least at my TOC, the conditions of free travel are that you have to give up your seat for a paying customer I don't see it being the same as regular traveller. The reason the pick up/set down rules are in place is to stop people taking up seats for a minor part of the journey when other options are available (especially, I expect, wheelchair or bike spaces) and leaving those berths empty for most of the service as a result.

That doesn’t really apply in the up direction, as others will have taken their seats before the train reaches Stevenage. There is of course an argument to say that those on longer journeys may well appreciate not being disturbed by a hoard of people boarding at Stevenage who do have a lavish 4tph fast service to London, but that’s a matter for opinion on the rights or wrongs of that. I presume the reason it has been done is for performance, namely that it would allow shorter dwells at Stevenage which may have some value especially during disruption, and because of the number of shorter trains we are going to see which will no doubt cause some issues on down services if well used by passengers doing London to Stevenage journeys.

Having said all that, Stevenage calls have been established for many years, and back in the 90s when there were restrictions it tended to get ignored anyway, which was probably why it just became a normal call. On balance my opinion, FWIW, is that the unrestricted calls should probably be retained.

 

[Segedunum]

Don't LNER staff get (at least some) free travel on LNER services?
Therefore anyone travelling between Stevenage and London in the future may have to pay?

IIRC free residential travel is provided on GTR. LNER staff get unlimited free travel (leisure/duty/residential) on LNER services.

 

[D1537]

Given how rare this is likely to be, how difficult would it be to tell staff - who are presumably going to be uniformed - to stand where Coach M (or its equivalent on a 5-car or 225) comes to a halt and enter through the crew area? No-one is going to kick off when that happens.

 

[stadler]

I wonder how strictly LNER will start to enforce these new restrictions. Are we going to hear stories of people being charged new full price anytime single tickets from or to Peterborough or Doncaster or York or wherever because they boarded at Stevenage when it was set down only or because they are travelling to Stevenage when it is pick up only. I bet some of the more jobsworth LNER guards will try it.

It seems to vary so much by TOCs as to how much they enforce these restrictions. Some of the TOCs like AWC and LUMO are known to have jobsworth staff that take a very authoritarian approach to this. Whilst others like SWR at Clapham Junction never seem to care much about enforcing it.

Some of the TOCs like GTR even specifically instruct their Conductors and OBSs to disregards pick up only and set down only restrictions and still allow people to board and alight and still sell tickets to and from those stations as normal.

Although it is worth noting that the only reason that GTR do it is to avoid needing rail replacement or taxis to go and serve tiny little stations in the early morning or late evening when trains are cancelled. So their reasoning is completely different to why other TOCs do it.