LNER Onboard Staff

[kkong]

Trolley services have the same problem though.

The "unable" in my experience is due to a persistent shortage of crew, which is indicative of poor management.

Either that, or there are sufficient crew and they just can't be bothered running the service, which is even worse.

It's never - in my experience - been because the train is too busy for the staff to move back and forth.

 

[800001]

The "unable" in my experience is due to a persistent shortage of crew, which is indicative of poor management.

Either that, or there are sufficient crew and they just can't be bothered running the service, which is even worse.

It's never - in my experience - been because the train is too busy for the staff to move back and forth.

Think it all depends on which depot the crew are based at.

 

[YorkRailFan]

The "unable" in my experience is due to a persistent shortage of crew, which is indicative of poor management.

Either that, or there are sufficient crew and they just can't be bothered running the service, which is even worse.

It's never - in my experience - been because the train is too busy for the staff to move back and forth.

My point was more that trolley services also suffer from lack of staff. GWR, TPE and XC are all examples of this.

 

[Haywain]

It's never - in my experience - been because the train is too busy for the staff to move back and forth.

I've seen that situation many times on a variety of operators.

 

[Tom B]

Used to travel frequently on GNER, NX, EC, etc. One of the things I remember being an issue on long-distance journeys is the catering closing down for quite a while mid-journey if there was a crew change for cashing up / stocktaking. Usually this would be announced, but sometimes not. Does this still happen or has it been streamlined?

 

[kkong]

I've seen that situation many times on a variety of operators.

So have I, but as I said, it's never been my experience when I've seen LNER not offer their at-seat service.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2025 ==

Used to travel frequently on GNER, NX, EC, etc. One of the things I remember being an issue on long-distance journeys is the catering closing down for quite a while mid-journey if there was a crew change for cashing up / stocktaking. Usually this would be announced, but sometimes not. Does this still happen or has it been streamlined?

It does still happens, but it's not as egregious as it used to be.

e.g. on Edinburgh to Aberdeen it was quite common to find the catering had already closed if you boarded at Montrose (~ 40 mins still to run to Aberdeen).

Complaints were made about this and LNER confirmed the catering should have remained open until Stonehaven (~17 mins) which is generally now the case.

Southbound, the catering would typically close for "a stock take and preparation for crew change" not long after Kirkcaldy, but this now seems to happen around Inverkeithing.

Of course there is no "cashing up" to be done these days because cash isn't accepted.

 

[Tom B]

It seems odd that staff would be individually allocated stock. I can understand closing down at the end of the run, but if there are intermediate crew changes, it always seemed odd (and wasteful of time) that the stock should be counted up and packed away, and then put out by the new crew. Is it a matter of accountability of items to each crew (if so, how much of an issue is that vs the cost of the time wasted). Unsure why they couldn't pack away at, say, Haymarket (in terms of completing any paperwork/cash up/log off tills etc), hand over to the incoming steward who simply needs to familiarise themself with any oddities (e.g. items not in stock, toastie machine a bit dicky so they'll take longer, right ready to go). Or is there something specific that requires a protracted time to complete?

 

[kkong]

It seems odd that staff would be individually allocated stock. I can understand closing down at the end of the run, but if there are intermediate crew changes, it always seemed odd (and wasteful of time) that the stock should be counted up and packed away, and then put out by the new crew. Is it a matter of accountability of items to each crew (if so, how much of an issue is that vs the cost of the time wasted). Unsure why they couldn't pack away at, say, Haymarket (in terms of completing any paperwork/cash up/log off tills etc), hand over to the incoming steward who simply needs to familiarise themself with any oddities (e.g. items not in stock, toastie machine a bit dicky so they'll take longer, right ready to go). Or is there something specific that requires a protracted time to complete?

I got the impression that the "stock take and cleaning" was often used as an excuse for the crew to stop work and take a break - certainly northbound into Aberdeen (you used to see the crew sit together in coach J on the HSTs for the last ~30 mins).

There is no re-stocking at Aberdeen because no catering is loaded there.

With modern technology, you'd think there'd be a means to order ahead for whatever you need for the re-stock at Waverley, if it's more than what's already scheduled to be loaded.

 

[rmHawk765]

The majority of their services no longer have actual hot food cooked on board. They have three different menus, Deli, Dish and Dine - Dine is the only one with actual meals and it's not given on most services from what I've seen.

 

[mugam4]

The majority of their services no longer have actual hot food cooked on board. They have three different menus, Deli, Dish and Dine - Dine is the only one with actual meals and it's not given on most services from what I've seen.

The first class Dine menu currently published online only has two rest-of-day hot options, the Railway Curry and BBQ Chicken Croque, so I don't think one is missing much

 

[D6130]

The first class Dine menu currently published online only has two rest-of-day hot options, the Railway Curry and BBQ Chicken Croque, so I don't think one is missing much

What? No vegetarian option?

 

[Gwr12345]

What? No vegetarian option?

The railway curry is vegetarian I think

 

[mugam4]

The first class Dine menu currently published online only has two rest-of-day hot options, the Railway Curry and BBQ Chicken Croque, so I don't think one is missing much

Of those two the curry is the only one that is a meal (not a sandwich), so it's unclear to me what the chef in the attached video actually does once breakfast is finished.

 

[D6130]

Of those two the curry is the only one that is a meal (not a sandwich), so it's unclear to me what the chef in the attached video actually does once breakfast is finished.

Sits in coach M and puts his feet up before travelling home pass on a train back to Leeds?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2025 ==

The railway curry is vegetarian I think

Yes - having consulted the LNER website - you are right. I was thinking of the Indian railway curry that's available in certain restaurants in the UK....which is lamb-based.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2025 ==

Absolutely fabulous, they were...

One time, I boarded in First Class at Kings Cross and, as I took a seat, was welcomed by a stewardess with "You do realise this is First Class".

"Yes", I replied - and was then told sternly that I need a First Class ticket, to which I replied "yes" again.

She then made sure the guard head-hunted me immediately upon departure. When I produced my valid ticket, the guard thanked me and carried on, much to her visible frustration.

There are certain things that remain in your memory for a long time!

You obviously didn't look smart enough to be a first class ticket holder....in her opinion!

 

[D6700]

I was thinking of the Indian railway curry that's available in certain restaurants in the UK....which is lamb-based.

You obviously didn't look smart enough to be a first class ticket holder....in her opinion!

"Railway Curry" was on the menu at a restaurant in York where there was a forum meal a year or two back. I think one or two tried it.

As regards my incident on GNER, you are indeed correct! I learnt to "know my place", so no longer dare to venture down that end of the train

 

[D6130]

"Railway Curry" was on the menu at a restaurant in York where there was a forum meal a year or two back. I think one or two tried it.

As regards my incident on GNER, you are indeed correct! I learnt to "know my place", so no longer dare to venture down that end of the train

When I do my annual first class all-line rover - coming up again next month - I quite happily sit in the superior accommodation in chinos, a tee shirt and cargo vest....and nobody bats an eyelid. I think perceptions have changed somewhat since GNER days.

 

[Starmill]

In theory yes. And when it works it is good.

However, out of the last say 20 LNER trains I've used, LEAYS has been available on about 5 trains.

And this wasn't not working due to crew change this was for the whole journey and on services where the aisles were not blocked

One of the reasons Avanti abandoned it is because it sets an expectation which is hard to actually meet.

Avanti's onboard service is especially poor however for Standard Premium because of this now, the walk to and from the café is quite long. If you have a laptop you have to awkwardly lug it through 6 carriages there and 6 back sometimes.

ICE trains often have at seat service and electronic ordering to seat for First Class only. Perhaps something like that would work for them if they can't manage to resource this, but I'm going off topic

 

[D6700]

When I do my annual first class all-line rover - coming up again next month - I quite happily sit in the superior accommodation in chinos, a tee shirt and cargo vest....and nobody bats an eyelid. I think perceptions have changed somewhat since GNER days.

I agree, I think they have changed generally. Certainly, I felt GNER were very snobby.

 

[KaneLeb]

I didn't realise they have done away with the trolleys. Come to think of it, when I went to Edinburgh a few years ago, we went to the Cafe Bar to buy cups of tea, and I saw the Lets Eat at Your Seat QR codes (but it wasn't working) but I didn't see a trolley. Cut following Covid I presume?


So I'm guessing one host on the Cafe Bar, a second helping them and doing Lets Eat at Your Seat and the other 2 or 3 providing the first class service?

I travel from Peterborough to Newcastle a lot on LNER Azuma. First class always have a trolley service, however I can't say I've ever seen a trolley service in standard class. In all cases I've witnessed, the person running the cafe bar also does the LEAYS service also, running to and from the bar to peoples seats.

 

[800001]

I travel from Peterborough to Newcastle a lot on LNER Azuma. First class always have a trolley service, however I can't say I've ever seen a trolley service in standard class. In all cases I've witnessed, the person running the cafe bar also does the LEAYS service also, running to and from the bar to peoples seatsl

LNER have not had a standard class trolley service since Covid.

LEAYS requires 2 people to operate it, one stationed in the cafe bar, and one person to deliver it to the seats.

One person should not be doing cafe bar and LEAYS at the same time, as they are then constantly having to lock up cafe bar each time they head to deliver an order.

 

[KaneLeb]

LNER have not had a standard class trolley service since Covid.

LEAYS requires 2 people to operate it, one stationed in the cafe bar, and one person to deliver it to the seats.

One person should not be doing cafe bar and LEAYS at the same time, as they are then constantly having to lock up cafe bar each time they head to deliver an order.

I imagine it does. However, on a service from Newcastle back to Peterborough (during a busy period - minimal free seats) there was one person running the bar & the LEAYS, and as you mentioned they had to keep locking the bar every time they delivered. Whether that was a one off due to sickness/staff absence, I don't know. It did seem strange at the time!

 

[webbfan]

Behaviour like this warrants a complaint, especially if you are the only passenger singled out.

Perhaps you could follow on with an exchange that goes something like :
Are you trained in customer service for your role ?
yes
Do they do an assessment at the end of the training ?
Yes
Any follow up assessment at a later date ?
No
Perhaps one of us should suggest it, seems the training doesn't appear to have a long term effect.

 

[Fuzzytop]

The first class Dine menu currently published online only has two rest-of-day hot options, the Railway Curry and BBQ Chicken Croque, so I don't think one is missing much

The 'Dine' menu published online is incorrectly a duplicate of Dish - in addition to those options there is a "chef-cooked" salmon with hollandaise sauce, broccoli and potatoes (and a cheese plate option for after).

Nothing overly extravagant but tasty enough, and seemed a reasonable size compared to the measly portions that LNER usually offers these days. Would be nice to have a few more choices though - it must be repetitive for the chefs!

 

[mugam4]

The 'Dine' menu published online is incorrectly a duplicate of Dish - in addition to those options there is a "chef-cooked" salmon with hollandaise sauce, broccoli and potatoes (and a cheese plate option for after).

Nothing overly extravagant but tasty enough, and seemed a reasonable size compared to the measly portions that LNER usually offers these days. Would be nice to have a few more choices though - it must be repetitive for the chefs!

So two main courses: vegan or fish. Gosh! Why bother?

 

[GordonT]

Is there a standard default strategy on occasions when equipment failure prevents hot options from being provided?

 

[800001]

Is there a standard default strategy on occasions when equipment failure prevents hot options from being provided?

Yea, normally more prepackaged sandwiches are loaded.

 

[ryan125hst]

Customer Service Manager had responsibility for all aspects of service delivery on the train.

Leader roles - one was catering supervisor / restaurant lead, the other (operations) was the role of the guard.

It worked well.

Oh I see, so the Customer Operations Leader was another name for the guard?

As mentioned above there's a Driver and Train Manager on every service, and possibly an additional TM assisting for a short portion of the journey. But for catering it depends on what traction is bing used and how busy (important) the train is.

On nine car trains, it tends to be two hosts in First Class, one in the Cafe Bar and another running delivery orders but this is down to the crew on the day to decide. In 5/10 cars you normally have two hosts in each set and the host in Standard Class just runs the delivery orders when they get the chance.

There may be some cases where it's a little bit different but in my experience it looks like this:

Five Car
- Driver
- Train Manager
- 2 Hosts

Nine Car (High Value)
- Driver
- Train Manager
- Customer Experience Leader
- Chef
- 3 Hosts

Nine Car
- Driver
- Train Manager
- 4 Hosts OR 3 Hosts & 1 Customer Experience Leader

Ten Car
- Driver
- Train Manager
- Customer Experience Leader
- 4 Hosts

Don't forget you might also have revenue staff onboard, catering staff doing positioning moves helping out and staff commuting on their trains in uniform who tend to help out where they can

Thank you. That does seem to differ a bit from what it used to be. I'm sure I saw a reply on WhatDoTheyKnow from before Covid that suggested 5 or 6 on a nine car Azuma and I think that was specifically catering. There's also an old East Coast customer service manual on the old East Coast WhatDoTheyKnow page that also suggests up to 6 hosts being onboard. I guess it has been reduced in recent times?

Yep. GNER where head and shoulders above all others.

88 restaurant cars cooked breakfast/lunches/dinners and trollies down the train. A full priced ticket ment passengers who had them could sit in the Standard Plus coach and get at seat service, free tea/coffee, croissants and Buscuits.

All destroyed by National Express run by the headcase at the top David Franks.

I think Standard Plus had long gone by the time GNER ended as I don't remember seeing anything about it (I was 13 when GNER finished). It's a shame that the restaurant car ended though as I have seen great reviews of it from back in the day.

It seems odd that staff would be individually allocated stock. I can understand closing down at the end of the run, but if there are intermediate crew changes, it always seemed odd (and wasteful of time) that the stock should be counted up and packed away, and then put out by the new crew. Is it a matter of accountability of items to each crew (if so, how much of an issue is that vs the cost of the time wasted). Unsure why they couldn't pack away at, say, Haymarket (in terms of completing any paperwork/cash up/log off tills etc), hand over to the incoming steward who simply needs to familiarise themself with any oddities (e.g. items not in stock, toastie machine a bit dicky so they'll take longer, right ready to go). Or is there something specific that requires a protracted time to complete?

Yeah I can never understand this either. At the end of a journey yet, but not mid journey. Surely it can be made more efficient?

LEAYS requires 2 people to operate it, one stationed in the cafe bar, and one person to deliver it to the seats.

One person should not be doing cafe bar and LEAYS at the same time, as they are then constantly having to lock up cafe bar each time they head to deliver an order.

So presumably a five car really needs at least 3 hosts - One for the cafe bar, one for LEAYS and one for first class?

 

[racklam]

No trolley anymore, but on the (very quiet) southbound Middlesbrough-KX a couple of weeks back, one of the staff walked through standard class taking, and then delivering orders. Like a more analogue LEAYS. Was a nice touch from someone who clearly cared about doing their job well.

 

[lb001]

Five Car
- Driver
- Train Manager
- 2 Hosts

Nine Car (High Value)
- Driver
- Train Manager
- Customer Experience Leader
- Chef
- 3 Hosts

Nine Car
- Driver
- Train Manager
- 4 Hosts OR 3 Hosts & 1 Customer Experience Leader

Ten Car
- Driver
- Train Manager
- Customer Experience Leader
- 4 Hosts

I would amend these on the catering side (with the obvious safety critical roles of TM and Driver being on all) to:

Five Car	3 Hosts	2 first class, 1 bar, but one may float due to loadings, e.g., if standard is heavier they may help with the first service out of origin, then help at the bar most of the rest of the way
or Five Car	2 Hosts	Only Sundays generally run with only 2 Hosts, and do so especially on lighter loaded services in the middle of the day.
Nine Car	4 Hosts	2 first class, 2 bar
or Nine Car	1 CEL 3 Hosts	2 first class, 2 bar
Nine Car – Dine Menu	4 Hosts 1 Chef	2 first class + chef, 2 bar
or Nine Car – Dine Menu	1 CEL 3 Hosts 1 Chef	2 first class + chef, 2 bar
Ten Car	1 CEL 5 Hosts	Cannot run without CEL. FRONT 5 will always have the CEL, and 2 other hosts with same premise as 5 car, and REAR 5 will have 3 hosts, also same as 5 car
Ten Car – Dine Menu	1 CEL 5 Hosts 2 Chefs	Cannot run without CEL. FRONT 5 will always have the CEL, and two hosts + chef, REAR 5 3 hosts + chef, organised as they see fit based on loadings and similar premise to general five cars. (There were some of these with LDS crews in the morning, but not sure if any still exist)

The only time these are generally deviated from are over the summer with some services given an extra host for part or all of their journeys.

As some have pointed out, there may be an additional 1 host, or even an extra full trains worth of them 'repositioning'. At LNER hosts do not 'pass', they are diagrammed 'assist' which might mean there are lots about, or they might just be sat down if the crew working the train decline their assistance.

10 cars cannot run without a CEL, and that cannot just be a host covering (as it could be on 9 car, with their being no additional responsibilities other than 'organisational' on those) due to the additional training a CEL has.

I also do not know how the new NCL-YRK shuttles fit into these, with them only being a 5 car and only an hours journey, so it would either be 2 or 3 hosts, possibly depending on predicated loadings when diagrams were made.

As also mentioned, if a first class is full leaving KGX on a Dish Menu for example, 3 hosts may remain in 1st until the first service is done, leaving it much more manageable with one cooking, one taking orders, and one running drinks, then after the first service one host going down to the cafe bar which depending on the standard loading could explain why at seat is not always available till a little after departure from origin and major stations.

I can't comment on at seat just not been on at all, because sometimes it is just technical issues, to crew shortages, to queues at the cafe bar, or lots of orders and not enough room in the microwave, but I'd say the general view onboard always used to be it's better for it to be off, than there be a 30 minute wait and customers running down to cancel their orders because they no longer have time to eat it before they get off. They're not always the reasons though, and it's generally best to speak to the TM if you have a question about it, because they're more likely to do something than the person with the switch who doesn't want to.

 

[800001]

I would amend these on the catering side (with the obvious safety critical roles of TM and Driver being on all) to:

Five Car	3 Hosts	2 first class, 1 bar, but one may float due to loadings, e.g., if standard is heavier they may help with the first service out of origin, then help at the bar most of the rest of the way
or Five Car	2 Hosts	Only Sundays generally run with only 2 Hosts, and do so especially on lighter loaded services in the middle of the day.
Nine Car	4 Hosts	2 first class, 2 bar
or Nine Car	1 CEL 3 Hosts	2 first class, 2 bar
Nine Car – Dine Menu	4 Hosts 1 Chef	2 first class + chef, 2 bar
or Nine Car – Dine Menu	1 CEL 3 Hosts 1 Chef	2 first class + chef, 2 bar
Ten Car	1 CEL 5 Hosts	Cannot run without CEL. FRONT 5 will always have the CEL, and 2 other hosts with same premise as 5 car, and REAR 5 will have 3 hosts, also same as 5 car
Ten Car – Dine Menu	1 CEL 5 Hosts 2 Chefs	Cannot run without CEL. FRONT 5 will always have the CEL, and two hosts + chef, REAR 5 3 hosts + chef, organised as they see fit based on loadings and similar premise to general five cars. (There were some of these with LDS crews in the morning, but not sure if any still exist)

The only time these are generally deviated from are over the summer with some services given an extra host for part or all of their journeys.

As some have pointed out, there may be an additional 1 host, or even an extra full trains worth of them 'repositioning'. At LNER hosts do not 'pass', they are diagrammed 'assist' which might mean there are lots about, or they might just be sat down if the crew working the train decline their assistance.

10 cars cannot run without a CEL, and that cannot just be a host covering (as it could be on 9 car, with their being no additional responsibilities other than 'organisational' on those) due to the additional training a CEL has.

I also do not know how the new NCL-YRK shuttles fit into these, with them only being a 5 car and only an hours journey, so it would either be 2 or 3 hosts, possibly depending on predicated loadings when diagrams were made.

As also mentioned, if a first class is full leaving KGX on a Dish Menu for example, 3 hosts may remain in 1st until the first service is done, leaving it much more manageable with one cooking, one taking orders, and one running drinks, then after the first service one host going down to the cafe bar which depending on the standard loading could explain why at seat is not always available till a little after departure from origin and major stations.

I can't comment on at seat just not been on at all, because sometimes it is just technical issues, to crew shortages, to queues at the cafe bar, or lots of orders and not enough room in the microwave, but I'd say the general view onboard always used to be it's better for it to be off, than there be a 30 minute wait and customers running down to cancel their orders because they no longer have time to eat it before they get off. They're not always the reasons though, and it's generally best to speak to the TM if you have a question about it, because they're more likely to do something than the person with the switch who doesn't want to.

The Newcastle - York shuttles don't offer any catering I believe?