LNER Flying Scotsman (train) question

[oldman]

I have this picture from my father's collection. It shows a train with LNER A1 (Knight of the Thistle I think) with a Flying Scotsman headboard and a platform on the off side. Two questions:

Where is it? Leuchars has an island platform but the wooded hills in the background don't look right.
The coaches. The first one looks Gresleyish but the second has a very different profile and is two-tone. Could the second be a pullman?

 

[norbitonflyer]

I have this picture from my father's collection. It shows a train with LNER A1 (Knight of the Thistle I think) with a Flying Scotsman headboard and a platform on the off side. Two questions:

Where is it? Leuchars has an island platform but the wooded hills in the background don't look right.
The coaches. The first one looks Gresleyish but the second has a very different profile and is two-tone. Could the second be a pullman?

View attachment 190404

Surely the Flying Scotsman service never ran as far north as Leuchars?

The second carriage does look like a Pullman

As for the location, the layout suggests Grantham but I'm not so sure about the background. The signal looks to be lower quadrant but not somersault.

 

[hexagon789]

I have this picture from my father's collection. It shows a train with LNER A1 (Knight of the Thistle I think) with a Flying Scotsman headboard and a platform on the off side. Two questions:

Where is it? Leuchars has an island platform but the wooded hills in the background don't look right.
The coaches. The first one looks Gresleyish but the second has a very different profile and is two-tone. Could the second be a pullman?

View attachment 190404

Berwick-upon-Tweed is the only other island platform I can think of, though I'm not sure it matches the photo.

In the winter months, when the non-stop didn't run, the Flying Scotsman usually stopped at Grantham, York, Newcastle and Berwick-upon-Tweed from memory.

In the summer, those calls were accommodated by the so-called "Junior Scotsman" which ran as a relief to the Flying Scotsman, generally running about 5 or 10 mins later from King's Cross.

So that is a point in favour.

Though, the inclusion of a Pullman is interesting - these were often used as tea or dining cars on internal Scottish expresses in the 1920s and 30s, particularly on the Edinburgh/Aberdeen and Highland Main Line routes.

Surely the Flying Scotsman service never ran as far north as Leuchars?

Not in steam days, other than through coaches to Aberdeen which were conveyed in normal Edinburgh/Aberdeen expresses in either direction.

 

[6Gman]

Just a thought, but could it be some sort of exhibition train?

It looks quite short, and the rolling stock variegated.

Could it be some sort of promotional thing touring various stations to show off what the LNER had to offer? The promotional boards on the platform may be relevant too.

And somebody decided putting a Flying Scotsman headboard on the loco would be a nice touch?

 

[hexagon789]

It looks quite short, and the rolling stock variegated.

Many second rank expresses were like this, so I wouldn't read too much into it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Oct 2025 ==

I have this picture from my father's collection. It shows a train with LNER A1 (Knight of the Thistle I think) with a Flying Scotsman headboard and a platform on the off side. Two questions:

Where is it? Leuchars has an island platform but the wooded hills in the background don't look right.
The coaches. The first one looks Gresleyish but the second has a very different profile and is two-tone. Could the second be a pullman?

View attachment 190404

OP, would you consider posting this photo on another site called RMweb?

It's a modelling website, but many of its members are coaching stock experts and may have better luck identifying the train and/or location.

Alternatively, with your permission, I could post the photo on your behalf if that is more suitable to you.

 

[Royston Vasey]

"Railway Identification Group" on Facebook will solve this, I've never seen a grainy black and white mystery the hive mind there can't solve!

 

[WesternLancer]

Just a thought, but could it be some sort of exhibition train?

It looks quite short, and the rolling stock variegated.

Could it be some sort of promotional thing touring various stations to show off what the LNER had to offer? The promotional boards on the platform may be relevant too.

And somebody decided putting a Flying Scotsman headboard on the loco would be a nice touch?

The promotion boards on the platform made me think exactly the same thing was a possibility

 

[pdeaves]

The promotion boards on the platform made me think exactly the same thing was a possibility

There also doesn't seem to be any steam or any station activity, suggesting the train has a prolonged 'dwell' such as would be appropriate for an exhibition.

 

[norbitonflyer]

The promotional boards on the platform may be relevant too.

I think they are just normal advertising boards for the LNER, advertising holiday destinations.

I wondered about Berwick too, I've found a picture of an NBR signal that seems to match. Culd it be Dunbar?

Where was Knight of the Thistle (if it is indeed No 2564) allocated? This might give a clue to which end of the East Coast Main Line we should be looking

Not much help, but the date must be between 1924, when it was built, and 1946 when it was renumbered 65. (It was not converted to an A3 until later), and was probably before 1939 as it apperars to be in full LNER lined green livery rather than wartime black.

 

[The exile]

Looks like a pair of island platforms to me (or at least a side platform and an island) - otherwise the left hand barge boards wouldn’t be so light. And surely the Flying Scotsman would only have been formed of such a motley rake in the forest of emergencies. Exhibition train coupled with someone with a sense of humour seems likely to me.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Oct 2025 ==

I think they are just normal advertising boards for the LNER, advertising holiday destinations.

They’re giant A-boards, which would surely have been a waste of space in normal operation.

 

[sprinterguy]

Where was Knight of the Thistle (if it is indeed No 2564) allocated? This might give a clue to which end of the East Coast Main Line we should be looking

Not much help, but the date must be between 1924, when it was built, and 1946 when it was renumbered 65. (It was not converted to an A3 until later), and was probably before 1939 as it apperars to be in full LNER lined green livery rather than wartime black.

2564 was an Edinburgh Haymarket engine for many years from new. It was paired with a corridor tender as per that seen in the photo between 1928 and 1935, so that should help narrow down time period and possibly region, though the corridor tender would mean that it could work all the way Up to Kings Cross.

 

[DarloRich]

Could it be a publicity shot?

 

[The exile]

Just noticed that there is no distortion above the chimney which suggests no / not much heat coming out.

 

[Harvester]

Where was Knight of the Thistle (if it is indeed No 2564) allocated? This might give a clue to which end of the East Coast Main Line we should be looking

I am not certain it is 2564 Knight of the Thistle, as under magnification the nameplate displays a two word name, each word of roughly equal length.There are only two possibilities in the number sequence 2560-2569, Pretty Polly (2560) and Merry Hampton (2565), but the former never carried a corridor tender. Merry Hampton did for only 4 months (20/3/29-4/7/29) when allocated to Haymarket, which could narrow the date of the photo down significantly.

 

[jupiter]

The A board says “Lowestoft” if that’s a clue? Unlikely to be advertising Lowestoft in Berwick?

 

[oldman]

Thanks to everyone for their responses.

OP, would you consider posting this photo on another site called RMweb?

It's a modelling website, but many of its members are coaching stock experts and may have better luck identifying the train and/or location.

Alternatively, with your permission, I could post the photo on your behalf if that is more suitable to you.

If you could, that would be very helpful.

The Flying Scotsman had portions for Aberdeen, Glasgow and Perth and I have seen pictures with the headboards (apparently invented in Scotland!) beyond Edinburgh. It looks like what I would expect a portion to be with a couple of through coaches on a normal Edinburgh train.

A special working widens the scope, though I don't think the wooded hills work for Berwick or Dunbar.

 

[hexagon789]

Thanks to everyone for their responses.


If you could, that would be very helpful.

The Flying Scotsman had portions for Aberdeen, Glasgow and Perth and I have seen pictures with the headboards (apparently invented in Scotland!) beyond Edinburgh. It looks like what I would expect a portion to be with a couple of through coaches on a normal Edinburgh train.

A special working widens the scope, though I don't think the wooded hills work for Berwick or Dunbar.

Assuming it is Leuchars Junction or somewhere along the Edinburgh/Aberdeen route, it looks very like an Edinburgh to Aberdeen express with two newer coaches on the rear, forming the Aberdeen through portion. The Pullman would be serving as dining car, as for many years there were no dedicated dining cars in Scotland, only Pullman cars serving in this function.

As you rightly mention, the Flying Scotsman typically had three through portions - one each to Aberdeen, Perth and Glasgow.

I don't know whether all carried the headboard, but I understand the Aberdeen train with the through portion did at times.

 

[Rescars]

Does the signal offer any clue? Can anyone tell if the signal applies to the platform line, or the sidings to the right of the picture? If the sidings, it seems odd to have the signal to the right of the line to which it applies without good reason, but equally strange to have a signal only part way along the length of the platform.

 

[RiverDon]

I'm not a train buff by any means but that is definitely not Leuchars station unless they've demolished that hill in the background in the last 100 years.

 

[Clarence Yard]

The first coach is a sleeper first. The second coach is a Pullman. The loco is immaculate, exhibition standard. There are giant A boards on the platform. My money is on it being there for display, but where on the LNER?

 

[hexagon789]

If you could, that would be very helpful.

With your permission then, I'll post over on RMweb shortly and see if members there can shed any more light on it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Oct 2025 ==

Link to thread over on RMweb can be found here: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topi...erhaps-working-of-a-photo-of-an-lner-pacific/

 

[norbitonflyer]

Does the signal offer any clue? Can anyone tell if the signal applies to the platform line, or the sidings to the right of the picture? If the sidings, it seems odd to have the signal to the right of the line to which it applies without good reason, but equally strange to have a signal only part way along the length of the platform.

Much of the LNER had right hand drive for many years.

 

[hexagon789]

Much of the LNER had right hand drive for many years.

Even in the 1950s, many locos were still RHD.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I am not certain it is 2564 Knight of the Thistle, as under magnification the nameplate displays a two word name, each word of roughly equal length.There are only two possibilities in the number sequence 2560-2569, Pretty Polly (2560) and Merry Hampton (2565),

Or 2563 William Whitelaw. The position of the gap between the words suggests the second word is longer than the first, which would rule out Pretty Polly.

2563 appeared in the 1925 Locomotion centenary cavalcade (opened by the LNER Chairman, after whom No 2563 was named - he was the grandfather of the Thatcher-era politician of the same name) Could it be connected with that?

1825-1925: The Railway Centenary Celebrations at Darlington, 1st to 3rd July 1925 – The Railway Magazine, August 1925

A significant proportion of the August 1925 edition of The Railway Magazine [1] was dedicated to coverage of the Centenary celebrations at Darlington. Given the short timescale between the event an…

rogerfarnworth.com

 

[hexagon789]

Or 2563 William Whitelaw. The position of the gap between the words suggests the second word is longer than the first, which would rule out Pretty Polly.

2563 appeared in the 1925 Locomotion centenary cavalcade (opened by the LNER Chairman, after whom No 2563 was named - he was the grandfather of the Thatcher-era politician of the same name) Could it be connected with that?

1825-1925: The Railway Centenary Celebrations at Darlington, 1st to 3rd July 1925 – The Railway Magazine, August 1925

A significant proportion of the August 1925 edition of The Railway Magazine [1] was dedicated to coverage of the Centenary celebrations at Darlington. Given the short timescale between the event an…

rogerfarnworth.com

On RMWeb, someone suggested an event celebrating the Stockton & Darlington 100th.

 

[The exile]

On RMWeb, someone suggested an event celebrating the Stockton & Darlington 100th.

In which case - how appropriate that it’s surfaced now!
At a similar period, what about a link to the Empire Exhibition in 1924 or 1925?

 

[norbitonflyer]

It looks like the approach to a tunnel in the background (extreme right)

LNER (possibly ex-NBR) Station with at least three platforms and a tunnel in close proximity. Narrrows it down a bit.

 

[The exile]

The A board says “Lowestoft” if that’s a clue? Unlikely to be advertising Lowestoft in Berwick?

If it was a travelling exhibition it could be anywhere!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Oct 2025 ==

It looks like the approach to a tunnel in the background (extreme right)

LNER (possibly ex-NBR) Station with at least three platforms and a tunnel in close proximity. Narrrows it down a bit.

The canopy also has a quite distinctive roof design.

 

[hexagon789]

The canopy also has a quite distinctive roof design.

Someone on RMweb (Graham R) has suggested Dunfermline Lower, the canopy and signal seem to fit:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/195877-assistance-identifying-the-location-and-perhaps-working-of-a-photo-of-an-lner-pacific/?do=findComment&comment=5975783

I think it's Dunfermline Lower.
Compare this photo on (apologies) Facebook:

 

[norbitonflyer]

Someone on RMweb (Graham R) has suggested Dunfermline Lower, the canopy and signal seem to fit:

Now known as Dunfermline City

Well, I was right about it being NBR.