LNER Delay Repay Dispute

[Chew Chew]

Hello all.

Looking for a bit of advice as it's been a while since I've had a Delay Repay dispute and before I get all "Outraged, Tunbridge Wells" and start email the chairman's office.

Back on the 5th July I was travelling from Portlethen to Meadowhall. I was alone on that part of the journey and went via Stirling where I was meeting my cousin and we were continuing our journey.

Tickets held for the outbound journey were:-

Portlethen - Arbroath (Advance single)
Arbroath - Stirling (Advance single)
Stirling - Alnmouth (Two Together advance single)
Alnmouth - Meadowhall (Two Together advance single)

Return journey tickets:-

Meadowhall - Newcastle (Two Together advance single)
Newcastle - Stirling (Two Together advance single)
Stirling - Arbroath (advance single)
Arbroath - Portlethen (advance single)

On the day in question all trains heading south out of Newcastle were off for about 4 hours after someone was hit by a train just outside Newcastle.

My understanding was that due to the length of delay I should be entitled to a full refund of the return journey however LNER are saying that this is not the case as I used split tickets.

So far they have refunded me £58.10 which is the cost of the tickets between Stirling and Meadowhall however this makes no sense to me as in the email they sent they've said "On review of your claim, I can see that your tickets are advance single tickets, and under the conditions of travel, you are entitled to 100% of the cost of a single ticket if your delay was over 60 minutes" and my Stirling to Alnmouth section of the journey wasn't delayed.

The initial email from LNER was on 20th July and I responded telling them then I thought that the calculation was wrong, they then responded on 30th July saying that the calculation was correct so I emailed back saying I still didn't agree and asking them to escalate my dispute. So far I've had no further response to my request.

It is worth continuing or am I chasing a lost cause as I'm not entitled to any further refund?

 

[AlterEgo]

Hello all.

Looking for a bit of advice as it's been a while since I've had a Delay Repay dispute and before I get all "Outraged, Tunbridge Wells" and start email the chairman's office.

Back on the 5th July I was travelling from Portlethen to Meadowhall. I was alone on that part of the journey and went via Stirling where I was meeting my cousin and we were continuing our journey.

Tickets held for the outbound journey were:-

Portlethen - Arbroath (Advance single)
Arbroath - Stirling (Advance single)
Stirling - Alnmouth (Two Together advance single)
Alnmouth - Meadowhall (Two Together advance single)

Return journey tickets:-

Meadowhall - Newcastle (Two Together advance single)
Newcastle - Stirling (Two Together advance single)
Stirling - Arbroath (advance single)
Arbroath - Portlethen (advance single)

On the day in question all trains heading south out of Newcastle were off for about 4 hours after someone was hit by a train just outside Newcastle.

My understanding was that due to the length of delay I should be entitled to a full refund of the return journey however LNER are saying that this is not the case as I used split tickets.

So far they have refunded me £58.10 which is the cost of the tickets between Stirling and Meadowhall however this makes no sense to me as in the email they sent they've said "On review of your claim, I can see that your tickets are advance single tickets, and under the conditions of travel, you are entitled to 100% of the cost of a single ticket if your delay was over 60 minutes" and my Stirling to Alnmouth section of the journey wasn't delayed.

The initial email from LNER was on 20th July and I responded telling them then I thought that the calculation was wrong, they then responded on 30th July saying that the calculation was correct so I emailed back saying I still didn't agree and asking them to escalate my dispute. So far I've had no further response to my request.

It is worth continuing or am I chasing a list cause as I'm not entitled to any further refund?

Was the Portlethen to Meadowhall journey made in one go? As in - you didn't have a break for a few hours in Stirling (where I assume you met up with a second person, hence the Two Together tickets for later in the trip)? I can see no other reasonable grounds to claim that Portlethen to Meadowhall isn't a single journey, otherwise.

 

[Haywain]

LNER are saying that this is not the case as I used split tickets.

While it appears that LNER are in the wrong*, they are not denying that split tickets form one journey because they have paid out on split tickets. It appears that in this case they think you made two journeys.

Edit: *their answer is confusing!

 

[Chew Chew]

Was the Portlethen to Meadowhall journey made in one go? As in - you didn't have a break for a few hours in Stirling (where I assume you met up with a second person, hence the Two Together tickets for later in the trip)? I can see no other reasonable grounds to claim that Portlethen to Meadowhall isn't a single journey, otherwise.

I got into Stirling at 0946 and we were on the train to Waverley at 1038.

Never even left the station, had a coffee in the snack bar and then went to the platform for the train.

While it appears that LNER are in the wrong, they are not denying that split tickets form one journey because they have paid out on split tickets. It appears that in this case they think you made two journeys.

That's the part I didn't get in their response.

 

[AlterEgo]

I got into Stirling at 0946 and we were on the train to Waverley at 1038.

Never even left the station, had a coffee in the snack bar and then went to the platform for the train.

Then there is no question this ought to be a single journey in my view - I'd appeal this further, or ask for a deadlock letter to take it to the Ombudsman.

 

[Chew Chew]

Then there is no question this ought to be a single journey in my view - I'd appeal this further, or ask for a deadlock letter to take it to the Ombudsman.

Cheers for the reply.

Since they are ignoring the email I sent to customers@lner.co.uk asking to escalate the issue I'll head over to ceoemail and get an email address for them and see if I can resolve things that way.

 

[Watershed]

Can you tell us the cost of each of your Advance tickets? We will need this to assess whether £58.10 is correct.

You would only be entitled to compensation based on the cost of the Advances for your outward journey; unfortunately you can't claim anything for the Advances on the return journey (even though if you had bought a return ticket, you would get 100% of this back for such a long delay - this is one of many downsides of LNER's abolition of return fares).

However, you are entitled to compensation based on the cost of all of the split Advances you used for your outward journey, provided it was indeed one continuous journey. If you bought it as one journey, for example using a split ticket retailer such as TrainSplit, then this would be pretty clear-cut even if you changed trains at Stirling. If, however, you had a long break at Stirling (say several hours) and bought the tickets in separate transactions and/or from different retailers, it could be more of a grey zone.

In principle though, the fact that your cousin joined you in Stirling doesn't affect your entitlement to compensation - Delay Repay is claimed on a per-passenger basis and as far as your claim is concerned, it is simply the case that some of your tickets are Railcard-discounted and others are not.

 

[Starmill]

If you booked the tickets all in one go, and the connections are all at or near the minimum times permissible under the timetable, then I don't really see how it could be argued this isn't one journey from Portlethen to Meadowhall. Unfortunately, as above, you'll have to ignore everything else.

 

[ianBR]

LNER are usually very good at resolving things if you use their online chat - I recently had a delay repay issue resolved much quicker that way after getting no response to my email complaint

If your journey involved two operators their system seems to also default to saying it’s the other TOC’s fault when it clearly wasn’t

 

[Chew Chew]

Can you tell us the cost of each of your Advance tickets? We will need this to assess whether £58.10 is correct.

You would only be entitled to compensation based on the cost of the Advances for your outward journey; unfortunately you can't claim anything for the Advances on the return journey (even though if you had bought a return ticket, you would get 100% of this back for such a long delay - this is one of many downsides of LNER's abolition of return fares).

However, you are entitled to compensation based on the cost of all of the split Advances you used for your outward journey, provided it was indeed one continuous journey. If you bought it as one journey, for example using a split ticket retailer such as TrainSplit, then this would be pretty clear-cut even if you changed trains at Stirling. If, however, you had a long break at Stirling (say several hours) and bought the tickets in separate transactions and/or from different retailers, it could be more of a grey zone.

In principle though, the fact that your cousin joined you in Stirling doesn't affect your entitlement to compensation - Delay Repay is claimed on a per-passenger basis and as far as your claim is concerned, it is simply the case that some of your tickets are Railcard-discounted and others are not.

Sorry for the late response, been at work.

The £58.10 is the cost of the tickets between Stirling and Meadowhall.

Stirling to Alnmouth was £24.10 for the two of us and Alnmouth to Meadowhall was £34.00.

The Portlethen to Arbroath leg was £9.80 and Arbroath to Stirling was ~£12.00.

 

[Haywain]

Sorry for the late response, been at work.

The £58.10 is the cost of the tickets between Stirling and Meadowhall.

Stirling to Alnmouth was £24.10 for the two of us and Alnmouth to Meadowhall was £34.00.

The Portlethen to Arbroath leg was £9.80 and Arbroath to Stirling was ~£12.00.

What were the cost of the one-way tickets for one person, and was the £58.10 the compensation payment for one person? It's really difficult to help without clear information about the tickets.

 

[Chew Chew]

Apologies as I got the figures the wrong way round.

The Stirling to Alnmouth ticket was £17 per person, two of us travelled so the cost was £34 in total.

The Alnmouth to Meadowhall ticket was £12.05 per person, two of us travelled so the cost was £24.10 in total.

£58.10 in total and this is what I have received in Delay Repay so far.

Given that LNER are saying that split advance tickets don't constitute a return ticket I won't be able to claim for 100% of the entire round trip so I am now needing to get them to reimburse me for the Portlethen to Stirling section of the journey.

 

[Haywain]

Apologies as I got the figures the wrong way round.

The Stirling to Alnmouth ticket was £17 per person, two of us travelled so the cost was £34 in total.

The Alnmouth to Meadowhall ticket was £12.05 per person, two of us travelled so the cost was £24.10 in total.

£58.10 in total and this is what I have received in Delay Repay so far.

Given that LNER are saying that split advance tickets don't constitute a return ticket I won't be able to claim for 100% of the entire round trip so I am now needing to get them to reimburse me for the Portlethen to Stirling section of the journey.

My quick maths suggests you have been paid more than you are due. That's why we're asking you to be clear about the ticket prices.

 

[AlterEgo]

Apologies as I got the figures the wrong way round.

The Stirling to Alnmouth ticket was £17 per person, two of us travelled so the cost was £34 in total.

The Alnmouth to Meadowhall ticket was £12.05 per person, two of us travelled so the cost was £24.10 in total.

£58.10 in total and this is what I have received in Delay Repay so far.

So that’s the correct amount then.

Given that LNER are saying that split advance tickets don't constitute a return ticket I won't be able to claim for 100% of the entire round trip so I am now needing to get them to reimburse me for the Portlethen to Stirling section of the journey.

Nothing to do with them being splits, but rather that you actually held single tickets; none of them are returns.

They have compensated you correctly here.

 

[Chew Chew]

My quick maths suggests you have been paid more than you are due. That's why we're asking you to be clear about the ticket prices.

So that’s the correct amount then.


Nothing to do with them being splits, but rather that you actually held single tickets; none of them are returns.

They have compensated you correctly here.

I'm getting myself confused now.

Haywain - If the cost of all the tickets between Stirling to Meadowhall tickets were £58.10 and £58.10 is what has been refunded in total then how have I received too much when the Portlethen to Stirling leg hasn't been refunded?

AlterEgo - Likewise, if I haven't received any reimbursement for the Portlethen to Stirling leg you earlier said should be considered part of the same journey then how have I received the correct amount?

 

[BongoStar]

I'm getting myself confused now.

Haywain - If the cost of all the tickets between Stirling to Meadowhall tickets were £58.10 and £58.10 is what has been refunded in total then how have I received too much when the Portlethen to Stirling leg hasn't been refunded?

AlterEgo - Likewise, if I haven't received any reimbursement for the Portlethen to Stirling leg you earlier said should be considered part of the same journey then how have I received the correct amount?

You are only entitled to a single passenger claim, which would have been half of £58.10. Looks like they saw the ticket amount and paid you in full instead of a single passenger supplement.

You could pursue this further, but total compensation will be lower.

 

[Haywain]

Haywain - If the cost of all the tickets between Stirling to Meadowhall tickets were £58.10 and £58.10 is what has been refunded in total then how have I received too much when the Portlethen to Stirling leg hasn't been refunded?

Like I said, your figures are far from clear. Two of you travelled, you are each due half of the total cost of the Stirling to Meadowhall tickets (for the single direction) and you alone are additionally due the cost of the tickets from Portlethen to Stirling. The cost of tickets fron Meadowhall back to Scotland are of no relevance at all to your claim, which is something I feel you may not be understanding.

 

[zero]

Your companion should file their own claim for £29.05, and your claim should be for £29.05 + £21.90 = £50.95.