LNER declassified train halfway, can refund fare difference?

[hkstudent]

I recently travelled on a LNER southbound during the end of the year and the train got to declassified in Peterborough and no more refreshments are served from there, due to flooding in passengers from another cancelled LNER train.

Any chance that I can stand for getting fare difference refund?
Meanwhile, if I have taken that cancelled train instead and end up moving into that declassified train, would there be chance of delay repay and first class fare difference refund?

And, which channel should I contact LNER for getting one or both the repay sorted?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes you should be able to claim a partial refund for the non provision of First Class for part of your journey. You should take it up with LNER customer services.

 

[yorkie]

I recently travelled on a LNER southbound during the end of the year and the train got to declassified in Peterborough and no more refreshments are served from there, due to flooding in passengers from another cancelled LNER train.

Refreshments are usually done by about Peterborough anyway.

Any chance that I can stand for getting fare difference refund?

If the train was genuinely declassified then you should be able to claim a proportion of the difference between the fare paid and the appropriate/relevant standard fare. If you can advise what ticket(s) were held and what price was paid (and any relevant discounts) we can advise accordingly.

Was the declassification announced?

Meanwhile, if I have taken that cancelled train instead and end up moving into that declassified train, would there be chance of delay repay and first class fare difference refund?

And, which channel should I contact LNER for getting one or both the repay sorted?

Can you clarify what your original booked itinerary was, what your actual journey times were and what choices were available to you?

 

[hkstudent]

Refreshments are usually done by about Peterborough anyway.


If the train was genuinely declassified then you should be able to claim a proportion of the difference between the fare paid and the appropriate/relevant standard fare. If you can advise what ticket(s) were held and what price was paid (and any relevant discounts) we can advise accordingly.

Was the declassification announced?


Can you clarify what your original booked itinerary was, what your actual journey times were and what choices were available to you?

I generally expect one more round of drinks and sweets at Peterborough with my experiences.

Train arrived at Peterborough and had some staff announcements before releasing the doors and annouced declassification as to flood in new passengers.

My friend took the earlier cancelled one and be forced to join my declassified train (lucky that I managed to held my opposite seat for him).

For him is a 60 late to London and likely some missed connections onwards to Kent.

Since it is halfway declassified, is it full journey fare difference of a 1st Return be refunded or?

 

[yorkie]

Without the relevant information it's difficult to comment, but a Delay Repay claim would be based on the final arrival time at whatever the final destination station in Kent was.

 

[cstewa38]

I recently travelled on a LNER southbound during the end of the year and the train got to declassified in Peterborough and no more refreshments are served from there, due to flooding in passengers from another cancelled LNER train.

By chance was this the 30th December? I was on the 17:30 EDB-KGX which was terminated short at Peterborough and we were advised to catch the 22:17 to KGX which was a 10 car Azuma (I believe from Leeds). Train Manager advised that First was declassified and I ended up standing to KGX. With credit to LNER I had my automatic delay repay email before we even arrived in London

 

[Haywain]

I generally expect one more round of drinks and sweets at Peterborough with my experiences.

I would regard that as highly unusual.

 

[30907]

I would regard that as highly unusual.

...except for pax joining there?

 

[Haywain]

...except for pax joining there?

No, including pax joining there.

 

[yorkie]

...except for pax joining there?

Passengers boarding may get something.

It sounds to me that the OP was not materially inconvenienced in any way however the rules do entitle them to the difference back for the relevant section of the journey.

For example if the journey was from Newcastle to London, and the difference in fares was (say) 36 pounds, as about 27% of the journey was affected, the amount payable would in that case arguably be 10 pounds.

Unless it was an expensive fare it probably isn't worth the hassle claiming; the time of both parties could be worth more than the hassle involved.

I would not be arguing that any food/drink was missed out on; in any case if anyone was desperate for a coffee, water, biscuits or crisps they could nip to the lounge upon arrival.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I would regard that as highly unusual.

It shouldn’t be, but indeed I have noticed LNER hosts usually can’t be bothered beyond Peterborough. Nor do Avanti after Stafford or Coventry.

 

[Snow1964]

Unless it was an expensive fare it probably isn't worth the hassle claiming; the time of both parties could be worth more than the hassle involved.

The person authorising the declassification effectively accepted the administration costs and time of processing. Might not of occurred to them (but that is more of a training issue), but they ought to have realised those with First class tickets were going to need partial refunds.

A customer shouldn’t really accept being charged lots for a premium service, then not getting it, but still be expected to do the work to get it refunded later.. A customer focused organisation would be apologising and offering compensation vouchers at the time.

 

[yorkie]

The person authorising the declassification effectively accepted the administration costs and time of processing. Might not of occurred to them (but that is more of a training issue), but they ought to have realised those with First class tickets were going to need partial refunds.

A customer shouldn’t really accept being charged lots for a premium service, then not getting it, but still be expected to do the work to get it refunded later.. A customer focused organisation would be apologising and offering compensation vouchers at the time.

It sounds like the customer was not materially affected but you are right that the customer is entitled to something back.

I do not think it would be practicable for staff to go round handing out vouchers; I could think of various reasons why that would be impracticable but that's for a different thread.

This would have to be a manual request to Customer Services who would need to do a manual calculation.

 

[DanNCL]

I generally expect one more round of drinks and sweets at Peterborough with my experiences.

That's been my experience with Grand Central, indeed I've been served as late as Welwyn Garden City on Grand Central, but not on LNER. LNER have usually finished with refreshments by Peterborough.

 

[Pemberton]

It shouldn’t be, but indeed I have noticed LNER hosts usually can’t be bothered beyond Peterborough. Nor do Avanti after Stafford or Coventry.

Just to clarify, are you saying your experience is Avanti can't usually be bothered to provide a 1st Class service from Stafford to London Euston or have I read it wrong?

 

[yorkie]

I think the original question has been answered unless any further information comes to light (e.g. details of the ticket held).

Avanti service is best discussed in a separate thread.

 

[All Line Rover]

Just to clarify, are you saying your experience is Avanti can't usually be bothered to provide a 1st Class service from Stafford to London Euston or have I read it wrong?

I think they mean that the Avanti first class host(s) would only tend to serve once, which is true. Perhaps, if lucky, a second offering of tea/coffee, but no more than that.

Returning to the topic at hand, if you received the advertised catering, had first choice of seats and continued to occupy a first class seat through to London, I think it would be hard to argue that the test for "declassification" (as defined in the NRCoT) has been met. Although packing a carriage with standing standard class ticket holders for nearly an hour doesn't meet the advertised depiction of first class, if any money offered by LNER is less - perhaps substantially so - than the amount they would/should offer for declassification, I believe that would be both acceptable and fair.

 

[Watershed]

I think they mean that the Avanti first class host(s) would only tend to serve once, which is true. Perhaps, if lucky, a second offering of tea/coffee, but no more than that.

Returning to the topic at hand, if you received the advertised catering, had first choice of seats and continued to occupy a first class seat through to London, I think it would be hard to argue that the test for "declassification" (as defined in the NRCoT) has been met. Although packing a carriage with standing standard class ticket holders for nearly an hour doesn't meet the advertised depiction of first class, if any money offered by LNER is less - perhaps substantially so - than the amount they would/should offer for declassification, I believe that would be both acceptable and fair.

Once a carriage is declassified, I think it's difficult to say that first class has been provided (which is the test under the NRCoT).

Obviously in the context of first class being declassified for just part of the journey, it's a more complex calculation (indeed, the NRCoT don't set out whether first must be declassified for the entirety of your journey for you to qualify for the partial refund). But a pro-rata calculation based on the distance during which first was declassified seems a reasonable starting point.

 

[Birmingham]

Just to clarify, are you saying your experience is Avanti can't usually be bothered to provide a 1st Class service from Stafford to London Euston or have I read it wrong?

They’ll mean northbound, i.e. after Stafford towards Liverpool/Manchester and after Coventry towards Birmingham & Wolverhampton.

 

[Haywain]

They’ll mean northbound, i.e. after Stafford towards Liverpool/Manchester and after Coventry towards Birmingham & Wolverhampton.

I'm not so sure they do. Last time I was on an Avanti train in first class there was just one refreshment run on the whole journey from Manchester to London.