LNER Carlisle diverts with 801

[robbeech]

Off up to Edinburgh today and whilst I’m getting an earlier train I can’t help noticing (according to RTT which may of course have received incorrect data) that the 0930 from King’s Cross is a pair of 5 car sets 800203 and 801103.

801103 is one of the electric only (save for the emergency single engine). Is this likely an anomaly in the unit allocation or is an 800/2 considered acceptable to drag an 801 in regular service between Newcastle and Carlisle?

I remember the class67 drags across there in the 91 and mk4 days, but there has always been talk about these things on diesel being a bit weak.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Off up to Edinburgh today and whilst I’m getting an earlier train I can’t help noticing (according to RTT which may of course have received incorrect data) that the 0930 from King’s Cross is a pair of 5 car sets 800203 and 801103.

801103 is one of the electric only (save for the emergency single engine). Is this likely an anomaly in the unit allocation or is an 800/2 considered acceptable to drag an 801 in regular service between Newcastle and Carlisle?

I remember the class67 drags across there in the 91 and mk4 days, but there has always been talk about these things on diesel being a bit weak.

800/801 combinations off the juice have happened before. Don't expect sparkling performance, but at the speeds permitted on the Tyne Valley Line that shouldn't be a problem.

 

[43094]

Not an anomaly - the 800/2 provides the traction power, the 801/1 just provides ‘hotel power’ to itself (heating / lighting etc)

 

[robbeech]

Thanks all, assumed it would be planned, just wasn’t sure how well it would perform. I’m on the one before it anyway (if all goes to plan a regular 9 car 800.

 

[JonathanH]

Thanks all, assumed it would be planned, just wasn’t sure how well it would perform.

Wherever a 10-car 800/801 combination is used, the diesel element is always on lower speed secondary routes (Carlisle to Newcastle, Durham Coast, Leeds to Harrogate, Joint Line via Lincoln, Peterborough to Hitchin via Cambridge) so the 800 has sufficient power to shift the 801 around without a challenge to performance.

there has always been talk about these things on diesel being a bit weak

That is when they are trying to reach 125mph, rather than 75mph.

 

[800001]

800/801 combinations off the juice have happened before. Don't expect sparkling performance, but at the speeds permitted on the Tyne Valley Line that shouldn't be a problem.

They happen in normal
Every day running as well, not just on these pre-planned diversions. There (maybe still is) used to be a Saturday working from Kings Cross to Hull operating as an 800/2+801/1

As for the diversions, if they did not run in this configuration, they would not have enough units to be able to operate the diversions and also still operate to Inverness, Aberdeen etc.

 

[MCR247]

They happen in normal
Every day running as well, not just on these pre-planned diversions. There (maybe still is) used to be a Saturday working from Kings Cross to Hull operating as an 800/2+800/1.

As for the diversions, if they did not run in this configuration, they would not have enough units to be able to operate the diversions and also still operate to Inverness, Aberdeen etc.

Maybe one of the best features of the 80x?

 

[plugwash]

The LNER 800s have 3 engines configured for a max output of 560KW*, so with an 800 dragging an 801 that would work out to 168KW per car. For comparision sprinters are 213KW per car.

So less engine power per car than a sprinter, but the electric transmission is probably more able to put down the power at low speeds.

* The engines themselves are rated higher, but were limited to 560KW for longevity.

 

[norbitonflyer]

They happen in normal
Every day running as well, not just on these pre-planned diversions. There (maybe still is) used to be a Saturday working from Kings Cross to Hull operating as an 800/2+800/1.

Are you sure? That;'s a 14 car train (800/1 is a nine car bimode)

I think you may mean 801/1
(there is no logic to the class 80x subclasses

 

[800001]

Are you sure? That;'s a 14 car train (800/1 is a nine car bimode)

I think you may mean 801/1
(there is no logic to the class 80x subclasses

I do indeed mean 801/1, post now edited.

 

[robbeech]

So less engine power per car than a sprinter, but the electric transmission is probably more able to put down the power at low speeds.

I’m guessing there’s notable losses through the transmission for the sprinters, they don’t appear to have any lock up on them (could be wrong) so are never direct drive. I think the new stock like the 195s excels here with the mechanical transmission.