LNER Azuma (Class 800/801)

[westv]

But if I book a window seat I expect to be able to see out of it even if it is sunny, if not I would pick an Aisle seat.

Book a seat on the shady side then.

 

[VT 390]

Book a seat on the shady side then.

Good idea, but what if the train is in reverse formation?

 

[gsnedders]

What potential is there for additional carriages to be added to the Azumas? HS2 is years away from reaching Yorkshire and the North-East, and there's likely to be a need for more capacity in the meantime.

They're already as long as long as a 225 set in 2x5-car form, and AFAIK the 9-cars were deliberately specified to have comparable seating to 2x5-car form. And remember they do already provide a capacity uplift at their current length (they lose half a carriage at each end versus having a loco and a DVT at each). They certainly can be extended (and the train spec allows for this), but obviously it'll have to be amendment to the contract for the IEP trains at who knows what cost (quite possibly more per coach, given the cost of the coach would have to be amortized over the remainder of the 27-year period!), and especially north of Edinburgh may well involve further SDO than current.

 

[Japan0913]

They're already as long as long as a 225 set in 2x5-car form, and AFAIK the 9-cars were deliberately specified to have comparable seating to 2x5-car form. And remember they do already provide a capacity uplift at their current length (they lose half a carriage at each end versus having a loco and a DVT at each). They certainly can be extended (and the train spec allows for this), but obviously it'll have to be amendment to the contract for the IEP trains at who knows what cost (quite possibly more per coach, given the cost of the coach would have to be amortized over the remainder of the 27-year period!), and especially north of Edinburgh may well involve further SDO than current.

please tell me.
What does SDO mean?
There are a lot of abbreviations for railways in Britain and I am studying.

 

[High Dyke]

please tell me.
What does SDO mean?
There are a lot of abbreviations for railways in Britain and I am studying.

Selective Door Operation, also called Selective Door Opening (or SDO) is a mechanism employed primarily on trains (although buses with multiple doors also generally have this feature) that allows the driver or conductor/guard to open the doors of a train separately.

Selective Door Operation enables trains to call at a station where the platform is shorter than the train. Some doors can be prevented from opening to ensure that passengers do not disembark from any carriages not standing at the platform.

 

[Julia]

They're already as long as long as a 225 set in 2x5-car form, and AFAIK the 9-cars were deliberately specified to have comparable seating to 2x5-car form.

Is there anywhere that could cope with 9+5? (I expect not, but remember when some 373s worked the ECML!)

 

[Bletchleyite]

But if I book a window seat I expect to be able to see out of it even if it is sunny, if not I would pick an Aisle seat.

Personally I tend to expand into the window space for shoulder space so I prefer them up too. Curtains would have been better (and looked better too).

 

[ashkeba]

Is there anywhere that could cope with 9+5? (I expect not, but remember when some 373s worked the ECML!)

The 373s were the shorter "Regional Eurostar" sets and still had coaches locked to avoid overhanging platforms. 2 were locked I think, so roughly 12 18.7m coaches in the platform. Azumas are 26m coaches? So no, I doubt they'd fit.

 

[quantinghome]

Is there anywhere that could cope with 9+5? (I expect not, but remember when some 373s worked the ECML!)

The 373s were shorter sets than the cross-channel Eurostars, but still 312m long, which would be equivalent to 12 car Azumas. The 373s used selective door opening.

 

[VT 390]

Personally I tend to expand into the window space for shoulder space so I prefer them up too. Curtains would have been better (and looked better too).

I do think that in first class at least they should have definitely gone with a curtains option as on the current MK3/4 carriages.

 

[Spartacus]

Is there anywhere that could cope with 9+5? (I expect not, but remember when some 373s worked the ECML!)

By my reckoning you could do Leeds (platform 11) to Aberdeen (platform 7) calling at York (P5) and Darlington (P4) if you really wanted.

 

[Japan0913]

Selective Door Operation, also called Selective Door Opening (or SDO) is a mechanism employed primarily on trains (although buses with multiple doors also generally have this feature) that allows the driver or conductor/guard to open the doors of a train separately.

Selective Door Operation enables trains to call at a station where the platform is shorter than the train. Some doors can be prevented from opening to ensure that passengers do not disembark from any carriages not standing at the platform.

Thank you very much.
On new cars, the driver can control the opening and closing of the door.
The union opposed it, as it leads to a reduction in the union?
Is this different from this?

 

[Japan0913]

Selective Door Operation, also called Selective Door Opening (or SDO) is a mechanism employed primarily on trains (although buses with multiple doors also generally have this feature) that allows the driver or conductor/guard to open the doors of a train separately.

Selective Door Operation enables trains to call at a station where the platform is shorter than the train. Some doors can be prevented from opening to ensure that passengers do not disembark from any carriages not standing at the platform.

That's about it.
It is also common in Japan.
For example, six trains stop on a short platform that only supports four cars.
At that time, the doors of the two cars that run out will not open.

 

[gsnedders]

By my reckoning you could do Leeds (platform 11) to Aberdeen (platform 7) calling at York (P5) and Darlington (P4) if you really wanted.

Waverley if you use one of the through double platforms and occupy both platforms, though I don't know if that really follows the rulebook.

That's about it.
It is also common in Japan.
For example, six trains stop on a short platform that only supports four cars.
At that time, the doors of the two cars that run out will not open.

It's done on plenty of trains in the UK too, but there's a limit to how far you want to stretch it, especially on intercity services (where people might need to move luggage through multiple coaches).

 

[hexagon789]

That's about it.
It is also common in Japan.
For example, six trains stop on a short platform that only supports four cars.
At that time, the doors of the two cars that run out will not open.

Alright on quiet rural lines, hardly ideal on busy InterCity routes though.

 

[hexagon789]

The 373s were shorter sets than the cross-channel Eurostars, but still 312m long, which would be equivalent to 12 car Azumas. The 373s used selective door opening.

I thought they locked out the two-end cars?

 

[hexagon789]

Good idea, but what if the train is in reverse formation?

Wear sunglasses?

 

[westv]

I do think that in first class at least they should have definitely gone with a curtains option as on the current MK3/4 carriages.

No curtains in 1st? That really is rubbish!

 

[Japan0913]

Is SDO also a factor that Middlesbrough service is not finalized?

 

[G Broughton]

There is a 5Q83 North Pole to Doncaster Carr Depot booked to pass Spalding (GNGE Joint Line) at 15:21.
Anyone know the unit/s number/s please ?

 

[3973EXL]

There is a 5Q83 North Pole to Doncaster Carr Depot booked to pass Spalding (GNGE Joint Line) at 15:21.
Anyone know the unit/s number/s please ?

A guess would be off this that ran Monday...…………..

5X82 Eastleigh - North Pole
800101 still white.

 

[G Broughton]

Many thanks, will go and have a look.

 

[Mikey C]

No curtains in 1st? That really is rubbish!

Do any modern trains have curtains? Don't recall any on the 390s or the Eurostar trains?

 

[westv]

Do any modern trains have curtains? Don't recall any on the 390s or the Eurostar trains?

Don't Hull Trains 180s have curtains? Can't remember.

 

[TheBigD]

Is SDO also a factor that Middlesbrough service is not finalized?

I would suspect its more to do with the lack of paths and the OHLE south of Northallerton being unable to support more electric trains until the power supply upgrades are done.

 

[Spartacus]

On new cars, the driver can control the opening and closing of the door.
The union opposed it, as it leads to a reduction in the union?
Is this different from this?

Who whole 'who does the doors' thing has been blown out of all proportion by the media, in reality it's a fairly inconsequential factor in the matter. The issue is that when doing it the guard would cease to be a fully safety critical member of traincrew, often merely a ticket collector, with imaginable consequences.

 

[ainsworth74]

What potential is there for additional carriages to be added to the Azumas? HS2 is years away from reaching Yorkshire and the North-East, and there's likely to be a need for more capacity in the meantime.

The IEP Train Technical Specification at paragraph TS223 specifies the minimum and maximum length for an IEP unit. The minimum is 130m (5-car) and the maximum is 312m (12-car). It also makes provisions regarding the ease of adding (or removing) intermediate vehicles. It requires that this be doable within eight hours and that the software should be able to update with the new formation within fifteen minutes.

Is SDO also a factor that Middlesbrough service is not finalized?

I would suspect its more to do with the lack of paths and the OHLE south of Northallerton being unable to support more electric trains until the power supply upgrades are done.

It's paths predominantly both on the ECML itself but also around Middlesbrough station. The layout is quite constrained so fitting in the extra service is could prove challenging. Middlesbrough station platforms are already long enough, by my reckoning, for a 5-car Azuma. Power supply upgrades are underway and in any event Middlesbrough wasn't due to start until May 2020 originally so isn't as yet late (though obviously events have over taken that original plan!).

 

[ainsworth74]

I've noticed that we're starting down the well trod DOO discussion path. It's not relevant to this thread therefore any further posts that lead is in that direction are liable for deletion without further warning.

 

[quantinghome]

They certainly can be extended (and the train spec allows for this), but obviously it'll have to be amendment to the contract for the IEP trains at who knows what cost (quite possibly more per coach, given the cost of the coach would have to be amortized over the remainder of the 27-year period!), and especially north of Edinburgh may well involve further SDO than current.

If the purchase of new trains under the existing contract were too expensive, the existing fleet could be reconfigured (for example 4 x 9 cars could become 2 x 12 cars and 2 x 6 cars) and new trains purchased under a new contract. Presumably the more recent class 800 orders have been made under better terms than the original IEP.

 

[gsnedders]

If the purchase of new trains under the existing contract were too expensive, the existing fleet could be reconfigured (for example 4 x 9 cars could become 2 x 12 cars and 2 x 6 cars) and new trains purchased under a new contract. Presumably the more recent class 800 orders have been made under better terms than the original IEP.

The existing fleet cannot be reconfigured without a variation of contract. Remember the current contract is to provide trains of x length for y diagrams per day starting and ending at defined locations.

The more recent Class 802 orders are more traditional ROSCO orders of rolling stock from Hitachi, and are owned by the ROSCO and leased like any other stock to the TOC.